Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Slavicist » Sat Apr 09, 2016 02:13

SinStar87 wrote:Far as I can find, there is no cousin.


That can't be the case. Just like we've got a successor to little Lord Arryn, there has got to be at least some cousin out there.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 04:21

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Baratheon I do try to research my answers, like I said most lines aren't extensively developed so far as I can find, there isn't. There may be something in resources I don't have, semi-canon stories and such, but this is the best I have, so saying "There has to be" just isn't good enough. My reasoning leads to the answer I provided
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by azaghal » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:22

The line is only fleshed out back to Ormund Baratheon, but his predecessor Lyonel Baratheon had at least one daughter (the one betrothed to the prince of dragonflies) So unless she remained unmarried for her whole life there is a high chance of some children, grandchildren and so on. They may not be named Baratheon, but they are the next in line and would take the Baratheon Name and Lands, like Harry Hardyng will take the Name Arryn when he takes over in future.

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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:39

Except there isn't, that's presuming too much. The succession for Stannis goes only as far as Shireen. Stannis' presumptive heir was Renly, who is dead. The failure is, Stannis is too egotistical to consider himself dying before he's taken the throne so has no plans for succession and continuation of his claim.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by azaghal » Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:05

She isn't named, nor shown in the genealogy, but most families are only detailled around important events, between them there is nothing shown.
After 300 years of baratheon rule most of the stormland-nobility should be "distant cousin" to Stannis, Robert and Renly. Part of the Westerlands as well, through the marriages between Baratheons and Lannisters (the last one 90 years back in the book that kills Jon Arryn).
Just like if you look for a distant enough relation we are all distant cousins to the Queen of England and Charlemagne.
(Funny enough: A friend of mine is adopted into a old small noble family in germany, so he even is listed in the succession-lists... far back but he'd just have to kill a few hundred people to become king :mrgreen: ;D)

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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Sat Apr 09, 2016 15:53

Eldon Estermont
Aemon Estermont
Alyn Estermont
Lomas Estermont
Andrew Estermont
Edric Storm

With what information I have available, House Estermont is the most likely place to look for Stannis' heir. Those few I listed are something like Stannis' grandfather, uncles and cousins. I dunno if Steffon had any brothers or sisters.. but if he did, they or their children would also be placed on the list. After that... it would probably be a descendant of the siblings of Ormund Baratheon if he had any.

Gendry the Bull is not even in consideration here. For all Stannis is aware of, he's just some random commoner who would be claiming to be the son of Robert. Which if Stannis were to succeed, I'm betting a lot of random commoners would be coming forward and claiming they were the bastard child of Robert.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by azaghal » Mon Apr 11, 2016 20:41

As far as i know the Estermonts have no right to inherit. It should be impossible to go back to Stannis' mother's line for an heir.
Maybe by proclamation, but not at all a sure thing (especially if you consider how unimportant House Estermont is, even by stormlands-standarts).

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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by BillNyetheRussianSpy » Wed May 04, 2016 04:30

Probably an Estermont considering they hold Storm's End or House Wensington or House Bolling which are cadet branches house Baratheon and Durrandon respectively. House Targaryen is disqualified because of Robert Baratheon's royal decree making them enemies of the realm. Or Edric Storm, if Tommen dies the throne will go to Myrcella, then Edric.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Slavicist » Mon May 09, 2016 06:15

And what's the line-of-succession for The Iron Throne, while we're at it?
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Mon May 09, 2016 06:19

No Barratheons left, Jamie can't inherit cause kingsguard, male preference, so Tommen's great uncle would have best legal claim.
Once your ass polishes a throne, both of your parents' lines become kingly, so if you die without issue and no siblings, it reverts to your father's tier(depending on which parent sat the throne, could be mother's, I'll use agnatic for example.) if noone of the tier remains it goes to their issue, if no issue is there then it goes back step by step, if there's no one, it goes to the other parent's line and does the same, tier by tier. Ofcourse as the lines removed increased, the vassals could say fuck it and pick someone else through a council, or someone could seize it.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Blackwolfpt » Mon May 23, 2016 21:09

Gendry can't be the heir as he is still rowing to this day.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Chrisjm89 » Tue May 31, 2016 12:00

If Lyonel's daughter marriaged into the Estermonts it would clear up the confusion of the familial relations.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comment ... gests_who/

Someone did a markedly better write up of it with the above link. (More likely it was just a mistake, if it wasn't the Estermonts by right inherit, being the last descendents of Lyonel Baratheon.)

Then after that it goes into murky semi-canon waters with the Blood of Dragons MUSH. Which is fortunately backed up by the aWoIaF book and dangerous women.

One of Borros Baratheon's daughters married into House Blackwood (Husband of Bloody Ben). This I'd take as damn close to canon considering Borros' four daughters are discussed in the Dance. While one of them was betrothed to Aemond.

Now following simply semi-canon, Arion Baratheon's (Lyonel's grandfather) sister Lyria is betrothed to the Crakehall's. While around that time (before third son Gowen and Tya Lannister) a Baratheon maid married into the Lannisters. (The Mod has it as one of Arion's daughters, an aunt of Lyonel.).

Anyway, if they're all taken together. We have;

Shireen
House Estermont
House Tully (cadet branch,Brynden Tully. Brother of Kermit Tully married Sarya Baratheon, daughter of Corwen Baratheon)
House Lannister (cadet branch. Can't be the main line despite what reddit cooked up with Elayna and Mathin Lannister, he'd have to kill his nephew Damon, Gerold's father to take Casterly rock. I'm sure the Mod has it as Symond, Damon's brother. Agewise Mathin and Elayna would fit. Just as how Symond and Arion's daughter fits.)
House Crakehall (Youngest daughter of Corwen Baratheon. Betrothed/married to Garen Crakehall.)
House Rowen (daughter of Borros married Thaddeus Rowen)
House Blackwood
House Targaryen (via House Blackwood and the marriage of Aegon V and Betha Blackwood) attainted by Baratheon's.
House Stark (via House Blackwood and the marriage of Willam and Melantha)
House Waynwood (this and below, the daughters of Jocelyn Stark)
House Corbray
House Templeton
House Swann (through Ser Orys, a uncle of Lord Corwen Baratheon)
House Waxley (through Lady Maelane, aunt of Lord Corwen Baratheon)
House Velaryon (via Jocelyn Baratheon's granddaughter Baela Targaryen, great granddaughter of Boremund Baratheon. who married Alyn Velaryon)
House Hightower (via Rhaena Targaryen, as per above, if the eldest married back into the Hightwoer main line, which I highly believe they did. Married Garmund Hightower.)
House Penrose (via a daughter of the Hightower match, which would fit with the Penrose's being Targaryen cousins as Elaena's line is discounted.)
- Four other Houses from the Hightower daughters.

Basically it'd be a clusterfuck. :lol:

After that just throw the Wensington's and Bolling's in. The Bolling are canonically Durrandon cadets, it's unknown in regards to the Wensington's. I'd hope personally that would be Sarmion the Stormbreaker who starts that cadet, as his nickname is cool.

If we have no Baratheon's left at the end of the books, I'd hazard a guess that Edric Storm made legit and married to an Estermont or Swann would be the most likely to cement rule in the Stormlands.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by MagisterBonsai » Tue May 31, 2016 15:49

Renly shrugged. "Tell me, what right did my brother Robert ever have to the Iron Throne?" He did not wait for an answer. "Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters. No one but the maesters care about any of it. Robert won the throne with his war hammed." He swept a hand across the campfires that burned from horizon to horizon. "Well, there is my claim, as good as Robert's ever was..."


I'm afraid Renly's right. Nobody but the maesters care. I'm certainly not a master. Whoever has a large enough army, love/fear, influence and power, and-or whoever takes it, holds it.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by armychowmein » Thu Sep 22, 2016 17:50

Here is a historical example of Primogeniture succession being overruled:

Charles de Navarre, was the rightful heir of Burgundy upon the passing of Duke Philip by primogeniture succession. He was the grandson of an older great aunt than that of John II. John II was the son of a younger aunt of Duke Philip. But, by rule of proximity, John II took Burgundy. What does this mean? Succession is a charlie-foxtrot
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Bradok » Sat Oct 01, 2016 18:05

First, I'd like to really point out that Stannis would never legitimize Edric Storm, because if he did then Edric would have a better claim to the Iron Throne than he does(or did by show lore).

Second, as far as inheritance goes in the case of all Baratheons being wiped out. It would end up going to the House with the most support. Having a better claim isn't always going to get you the seat of a Lordship. We can take an example from real medieval history, primarily the War of the Roses where the Duke of York and a plethora of supporters tried to claim the throne through marriage whilst a living trueborn son lived.

In the end it all comes down to power. People forget most people, even Stormlanders, hated Stannis. He wasn't a liked person at all and after letting the Red Woman burn vassals on the beach for months I don't think another Baratheon would be likely to be seated in the Stormlands, especially some third or fourth cousin that held no lands or titles or a bastard at that.

Through marriage, I'd probably say the Estermonts have the greatest claim seeing has to how their house has historically married into the Baratheons as much as the Targs have.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Humboldt » Mon Dec 05, 2016 19:48

As things currently stand Tommen would inherit it, and he could give it to whoever he wants - as Robert did when he became king.

I'd think that Tommen would give the Westerlands (since he is Cersei's heir) to Kevan's branch of the family (Martyn Lannister) and the Stormlands paramouncy to whoever seems most loyal to his cause.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by karmaepsilon » Tue Jan 03, 2017 22:56

Yeah assuming Cersei's brood dies a la prophecy in the books as well as the show it'd turn into a big fight between the Stormlords over who has the most recent Baratheon maternal blood and also a few arguing Durrandon is just as valid for a Storm Lord line as Baratheon so that should be the deciding factor.
No way would they let the Blackwoods or Lannisters send someone in to take the Paramoncy without a fight, far too proud a people for that.
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