Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

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Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Slavicist » Tue Apr 05, 2016 01:03

Not counting little Shireen, who is the heir apparent to the Lordship of Storm's End in case of Stannis' untimely demise? Would that be the extinction of House Baratheon as we know it? Who's the next in line?

Gendry Storm?

P. S. This, of course, goes along the line that we acknowledge Tommen and Myrcella as illegitimate, so the Stormlands would NOT default to King Tommen. Though this also brings up yet another rather interesting question - who is Tommen's heir?
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 08:25

Surely Edric over Gendry as Edric is older and is known to actually be one of Robert's kids
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Dawnbreaker » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:32

Are we overlooking the whole bastards can't inherit thing?
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Slavicist » Tue Apr 05, 2016 14:17

blackninja9939 wrote:Surely Edric over Gendry as Edric is older and is known to actually be one of Robert's kids


Gendry is almost three years older than Edric.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 14:22

Slavicist wrote:
blackninja9939 wrote:Surely Edric over Gendry as Edric is older and is known to actually be one of Robert's kids


Gendry is almost three years older than Edric.

Really? Could have sworn it was the other way round.
Doesn't matter though as nobody actually knows Gendry is Robert's son whereas Edric is an acknowledged bastard and could probably try and get some of that sweet sweet legitimisation
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 14:25

As ninja said, an acknowledged bastard beats a suspected bastard. Assuming that both Stannis and the IT bite it, Who's currently managing the Stormlands? If they don't use their position to usurp power, then Dorne or the Reach will press in. Though I'm not sure what Dorne is up to at this time and the Reach is pretty tied into the IT.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by stale » Tue Apr 05, 2016 19:05

I would argue Edric over Gendry as well because Edric's mother is a Florent and Gendry's mother is base born.

Also, if we go out on a limb here and say that by some unimaginable feat of fate Young Griff and Dany take the throne together (is it entirely ruled out yet?) then the Stormlands would probably go to the Conningtons since neither of them have much reason to tolerate the Baratheons...

Or perhaps one of the Cadet houses would be legitimized as the new Baratheon house under different circumstances.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Slavicist » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:12

SinStar87 wrote:As ninja said, an acknowledged bastard beats a suspected bastard. Assuming that both Stannis and the IT bite it, Who's currently managing the Stormlands? If they don't use their position to usurp power, then Dorne or the Reach will press in. Though I'm not sure what Dorne is up to at this time and the Reach is pretty tied into the IT.


That's kind of my question; who's in charge in The Stormlands in Stannis' name? Ser Loras Estermont?

Additionally, this thread is not about "what-if" scenarios meaning what would happen, but to determine who is the heir to the Stormlands.

Bastards have got to be legitimized (regardless of his current public status); that point remains. How in Gods name is Stannis so stupid as to not legitimize any of Robert's bastards considering he doesn't even have any trueborn son, has got a barren wife and actually no other kin to ascertain that "the seed is strong" is absolutely beyond my comprehension, by the way. He had considered earlier that possibility and Renly was his heir, but getting exposed to dynastic extinction is so stupid one really has got to wonder what happens in that head over there.

Edric was never legitimized, right? So, in theory, that means then that Gendry should (once again, in theory) go before him?

What happens about the line of succession along female heritage? They don't have that over in the Stormlands (not in any form)?

P. S. I assume this would also mean that there is literally no legal successor for The Iron Throne as well? If I understand correctly, that means that a Grand Council is to be held once Tommen is overthrown to choose the next king? Who would be among the choices of that Council: Danaerys, Young Griff, Edric Storm, Gendry, [Jon Snow]...anyone else? I argue that a Grand Council has the power vested in it to offer acts of recognition to bastards just like an ordinary rex does.
Last edited by Slavicist on Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:19, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:16

Yes in theory but nobody actually knows Gendry is Robert's kid so the oldest known bastard to Robert left is Edric
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:35

Slavicist wrote:Additionally, this thread is not about "what-if" scenarios meaning what would happen, but to determine who is the heir to the Stormlands.

Uh, seems to be a what if, Shireen is heir apparent so she takes over, but you said in the opener that she's excluded for some reason other than evidenced happenings. Then go on to exclude them resubmitting to the IT because Tommen would have no right to it for some reason, which is the most likely scenario if Shireen were killed.

So, what if... There's no set inheritance after Shireen, so a Succession Crisis begins, the remaining lords squabble over it, meanwhile Reach and Dorne march in.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by azaghal » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:45

Propably it would go to the claimant with the most supporters/acclaim.
But the "legal" heir would either be a distant baratheon cousin (there should be a few after 300 years of rule) or, if they win the war and crush the "rumors" of incest to Tommen or Myrcella (it's always bad to have the kingdom and a lord-paramouncy to rule.)

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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Slavicist » Wed Apr 06, 2016 17:36

SinStar87 wrote:
Slavicist wrote:Additionally, this thread is not about "what-if" scenarios meaning what would happen, but to determine who is the heir to the Stormlands.

Uh, seems to be a what if, Shireen is heir apparent so she takes over, but you said in the opener that she's excluded for some reason other than evidenced happenings. Then go on to exclude them resubmitting to the IT because Tommen would have no right to it for some reason, which is the most likely scenario if Shireen were killed.

So, what if... There's no set inheritance after Shireen, so a Succession Crisis begins, the remaining lords squabble over it, meanwhile Reach and Dorne march in.


Well if Martin's comments are to be believed, Shireen is about to be burned alive in the forthcoming book, i.e. the TV show apparently took it directly from an unpublished manuscript rather than inventing it for the purpose of its own storyline. That is, if I am not mistaken, but it seems Lord/King Stannis might have to go looking for someone else for an heir.

So you say a succession crisis is in store, is there anything of sorts of a "localized" Great Council? A gathering of all the Storm Lords to the manner of the one stipulated in the case of an unknown successor to The Iron Throne?
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by stale » Wed Apr 06, 2016 17:50

Slavicist wrote:Well if Martin's comments are to be believed, Shireen is about to be burned alive in the forthcoming book, i.e. the TV show apparently took it directly from an unpublished manuscript rather than inventing it for the purpose of its own storyline. That is, if I am not mistaken, but it seems Lord/King Stannis might have to go looking for someone else for an heir.

So you say a succession crisis is in store, is there anything of sorts of a "localized" Great Council? A gathering of all the Storm Lords to the manner of the one stipulated in the case of an unknown successor to The Iron Throne?



I don't think so, or at least I can't think of any evidence of it happening. If we go off the closest thing we have canonically, Jon Arryn legitimized a distant relative of a different house (Harry Hardyng) and made him an Arryn in the case of Robert dying. So, it would seem whoever is the highest lord in the realm has the privilege to dictate who is his heir, and if they die before naming one it would revert to the IT who would most likely listen to council and then hand it out to whomever they deem fit (best case scenario). Perhaps in the case of a weak crown like we have currently the lords would be able to decide among themselves and then 'submit' their decision to the crown for approval.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 17:51

@ Slavicist, Entirely possible but not yet set. Tv show isn't considered canon(people were very vocal for the April Fool's version) so can't state matter of fact until GRRM's lore is released.

It doesn't appear many lines are extensively developed, as far as I can find. So in the event Shireen dies, and assuming Stormlands is isolated except for family lines, then Shireen's mom's family would have the best claim(but that'd make the stormlands ruled by a Reachman), them and Stannis' mom's family(Stormlanders but further from the succession). The strongest vassals would likely chime in, though GRRM appears to like Factions more than anything so it'd probably be a Shireen Great Uncle vs an Uncle, Estermont v Florent. Oh, that's interesting, One of Shireen's extended family is Randyll Tarly through one of Selyse's cousins.

@Stale, Slavicist stated the IT isnn't to be involved in the discussion.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by Azsouth » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:34

depends, if your asking about the show it will probably be Gendry because he is the only person we know of that is a legit Baratheon, they wiped out the whole family, they need to have a stag around to justify the opening credits w/ the deer head everywhere.

as for the book, if Shireen isn't killed in the next few books I'd guess Edric Storm is next, Stannis (I think is still alive) would likely legitimize him. also House Wensington being a branch like the Karstarks are to the starks would have a claim as well as House Bolling being that they can trace their lineage back to the storm kings before the Baratheons

EDIT: also Sin is right as well, the Florents and Estermonts would both have claims as well as the Targaryens (since the grandmother of Robert and fam was a Targ).
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by azaghal » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:26

In our modern eyes most of you would be right. But in westerosi culture a non-legitimized bastard is as far away from inheritance as an orphan from Volantis.
Edric Storm might be legitimized some day in the future, but until then he has no claim at all and some cousin will get it (legally spoken).

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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:31

Far as I can find, there is no cousin.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by lemtastic » Fri Apr 08, 2016 14:16

It depends on who gets legitimised/acknowledged first, and/or who gets seated on Storm's End first. Most likely the one with support already and a bit of nobility in their veins other than just Baratheon blood.
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by armychowmein » Fri Apr 08, 2016 20:57

Why wouldn't it revert to a Targaryen as House Baratheon a pretty much a cadet dynasty through Orys?
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Re: Who is the heir to the Stormlands?

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 21:01

Dany is in the succession line, buy the connection to Shireen is very far, like 4 removed just on the Baratheon side. Edit* Plus, I think the Targs are disqualified from Westeros succession since Rob took the Throne.
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