First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by SBerger » Wed May 18, 2016 14:18

Map modding won't be you're only headache. I've already expressed my opinion of a submod like this on the Paradox forums, but this submod is a very, very bad idea.

For one the map change will have to be something that we don't know since GRRM never gave us a hint of an idea what the Valyrian continent looked like. Then we have no remember why the Andals migrated to Westeros and the length of their migration. So in Westeros, we'll have literally hundreds of petty kings being swallowed whole by a thousand years of never-ending Andal doomstack invasions. Then you have to worry about the Valyrians themselves. This time period was during their golden age of conquest and power. You will need to create a Valyrian government type akin to a mega-Merchant Republic ruled by 39 new families you have to create, all riding dragons basically the power of Balerion, or greater, living on a continent that can mass probably close to half a million with ease, if not greater. Think of this like an Abbasid doomstack from the vanilla with each commander riding a dragon that can wipe out the map, literally.

You also have to think of the minor stuff like provinces because a lot of the owners and castles of this time don't really exist in this time. Casterly Rock isn't the grandiose monolith we know of now, Winterfell was probably nothing more than a minor ringfort, Dragonstone doesn't exist, and the Valeryons and Celtigars probably haven't moved in to their islands by now. No Eyrie, no Harrenhal, no Sunspear, etc. I personally think this submod is too ambitious to make, and the time period who want to play in is just too chaotic with a Ultra-doomstack acting as hegemony.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Flamequeen » Wed May 18, 2016 21:42

If you need any help with any unique buildings or whatever I can help :)
'To be or not to be? That is the question' - Shakespeare
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Widowmaker94 » Wed May 18, 2016 22:37

Flamequeen wrote:If you need any help with any unique buildings or whatever I can help :)

Thank you!:) I most certainly will need help.:)

Partly because there are some things that need to be placed in the area that's now called Deepwood Motte.

SBerger wrote:Map modding won't be you're only headache. I've already expressed my opinion of a submod like this on the Paradox forums, but this submod is a very, very bad idea.

For one the map change will have to be something that we don't know since GRRM never gave us a hint of an idea what the Valyrian continent looked like. Then we have no remember why the Andals migrated to Westeros and the length of their migration. So in Westeros, we'll have literally hundreds of petty kings being swallowed whole by a thousand years of never-ending Andal doomstack invasions. Then you have to worry about the Valyrians themselves. This time period was during their golden age of conquest and power. You will need to create a Valyrian government type akin to a mega-Merchant Republic ruled by 39 new families you have to create, all riding dragons basically the power of Balerion, or greater, living on a continent that can mass probably close to half a million with ease, if not greater. Think of this like an Abbasid doomstack from the vanilla with each commander riding a dragon that can wipe out the map, literally.

You also have to think of the minor stuff like provinces because a lot of the owners and castles of this time don't really exist in this time. Casterly Rock isn't the grandiose monolith we know of now, Winterfell was probably nothing more than a minor ringfort, Dragonstone doesn't exist, and the Valeryons and Celtigars probably haven't moved in to their islands by now. No Eyrie, no Harrenhal, no Sunspear, etc. I personally think this submod is too ambitious to make, and the time period who want to play in is just too chaotic with a Ultra-doomstack acting as hegemony.


I already said I'm not touching Essos. This is Westeros only. No Dragon Lords. The entire focus is on the Andal Invasions and Westeros during that time period/Era.

And for anyone who knows their maps? Valyria is clearly Greece. Or at least similar. But that's not really relevant here.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Flamequeen » Thu May 19, 2016 07:03

Widowmaker94 wrote:
Flamequeen wrote:If you need any help with any unique buildings or whatever I can help :)

Thank you!:) I most certainly will need help.:)

Partly because there are some things that need to be placed in the area that's now called Deepwood Motte.


:) Great! just let me know when you need the help.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by schlexer the wizard » Thu Jun 02, 2016 08:03

If you would like me to help you with the religions, cultures and dejure duchy's, kingdoms and empires then i'd like to help you
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by schlexer the wizard » Thu Jun 02, 2016 08:12

SBerger wrote:Map modding won't be you're only headache. I've already expressed my opinion of a submod like this on the Paradox forums, but this submod is a very, very bad idea.

For one the map change will have to be something that we don't know since GRRM never gave us a hint of an idea what the Valyrian continent looked like. Then we have no remember why the Andals migrated to Westeros and the length of their migration. So in Westeros, we'll have literally hundreds of petty kings being swallowed whole by a thousand years of never-ending Andal doomstack invasions. Then you have to worry about the Valyrians themselves. This time period was during their golden age of conquest and power. You will need to create a Valyrian government type akin to a mega-Merchant Republic ruled by 39 new families you have to create, all riding dragons basically the power of Balerion, or greater, living on a continent that can mass probably close to half a million with ease, if not greater. Think of this like an Abbasid doomstack from the vanilla with each commander riding a dragon that can wipe out the map, literally.

You also have to think of the minor stuff like provinces because a lot of the owners and castles of this time don't really exist in this time. Casterly Rock isn't the grandiose monolith we know of now, Winterfell was probably nothing more than a minor ringfort, Dragonstone doesn't exist, and the Valeryons and Celtigars probably haven't moved in to their islands by now. No Eyrie, no Harrenhal, no Sunspear, etc. I personally think this submod is too ambitious to make, and the time period who want to play in is just too chaotic with a Ultra-doomstack acting as hegemony.


harrenhal is just renaming and making it a smaller castle same with Casterly Rock and Winterfell. The Valeryons and the Celtigars can be replaced with some random first men or they can be ruins.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Thu Jun 02, 2016 09:24

@Widowmaker94: It is entirably possible.. You will have a ton of work to do. Setting the earliest starting point of the game to 6470 (When the Andal Invasion actually began)...


+King Brynden Mudd of the Rivers and the Hills RIVERLANDS
+King Garth Gardener the Goldenhand of the Reach REACH
+King Erich Durrandon of the Stormlands STORMLANDS
+King Joshua Massey of the Hook CROWNLANDS/STORMLANDS
+King Florian of the Bay of Claws RIVERLANDS
+King Yorwyck Royce of Runestone VALE
+King Osgood Shett of Gulltown VALE
+King Jon Brightstone of the Fingers VALE
+King Jon Stark of the North NORTH
+King Rogar Bolton of the Dreadfort NORTH

+Lord Dywen Shell of the Fingers VALE
+Lord Lymond Hightower of Oldtown REACH

Iron Islands, Westerlands, Stormlands and the Reach were unified at the beginning.
The Vale was divided between 3-4 kings.
Crownlands were divided between 1-2 kings.
Dorne had several kings: Yronwood, Briar, Brook, Brownhill, Holt, Lake, Shell, and Wade
House Dayne were the kings of the Torrentine (keeping seperate cause I actually know the name of the kingdom)

@pancakous: Graphic modding is by far the hardest/most time consuming part of modding.

@AkkBar/BillNyethe RussianSpy: Where did you get this information lol? Here is a more revised dating system going off of information from the World Book.
4000 Empire of Ghis completely destroyed. << Things claim this happened 5000 years ago, but 4000 years ago seems way more realistic.
6470 Andal Invasion
7300 Rhoynar Migration
8000 Aegons Invasion
8300 Current Date.

Anyways, the Valyrians had tamed dragons before they started expanding their lands. One of their first actions was to begin a war against the empire of Ghis. Whether you're under my idea that it happened around 4000 years ago (around 4000) or if you believe it happened about 5000 years ago which would place it around 3000... That's still 2500-3500 years before the Andal invasion began. I would have to go find my world book, but I believe Volantis, Myr, Tyrosh and Lys were all colonized before the Andal Invasion even began.

@SBerger: Valyria's islands still exist don't they? There may be a few gaps, but the majority of the shape of the peninsula still remains. There would need to be a little filling in the gaps, but it's definitely not that far out of reach to do.
The Andals migrated to Westeros because the Valyrians were pressuring them. 100 or so years before the Migration began, the Valyrians scoured Lorath which was owned by the Andals with dragon flame.
House Belaerys is another dragonlord house. The other 38 are unknown though. There would most likely be about 240-400 dragons in total at any one time. Of varying sizes and ages. There might actually be rules about how many hatched dragons there can be. Maybe each house is only allowed to have 5 living dragons or something? Then you would also need the branch houses. Like house Targaryen has the Velaryon and Celtigars. So looking at at least 125-126 Valyrian houses? Then there would be the countless other ones, like Volantene houses of Maegyr, Paenymion, Vhassar, Qhaedar, Vaelaros, Staegone...
Casterly Rock and Winterfel I would say only drop them a tier on the castle fortress level. In the case of Casterly Rock, it's not really a fortress but more a carved out mountain. The Valyrians are probably a thousand years from even coming near dragonstone, they still have a lot of lands on Essos to expand to. I would say they probably established an outpost there maybe around the rhoynish migration.
The Eyrie could actually have an event setup like how Kings Landing is now. If the Arryns are able to win their fight against the Royces.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Arcvalons » Fri Jun 03, 2016 00:59

All dates are highly speculative, some maesters claim the Andal invasions took place 600 years ago, others claim it were only 2000 years ago. Just chose a random date between 2000 and 6000 and go with that. Too bad the mod won't include Essos though, I'd like to play as the Rhoynar or the Valyrians at their strongest.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Fri Jun 03, 2016 01:05

That is not very true anymore Arcvalons. I'm lazy so here is a post from Toccs that explains it.
Toccs wrote:Careful reading of the worldbook reveals a pretty accurate and realistic timeline. Because there are certain things that are reliably dated by multiple sources.

- 1000 years ago the Second Spice War ended. This lead directly into Garrin the Great's war which lead to Nymeria leaving and arriving at Dorne a few years later. That is a chain of events that is dated reliably. In game terms that would be 7300.
The Second Spice War was the last of the Rhoynish Wars which lasted for a period of 200 years. So the First Turtle War which started those wars would be in 7100.

- The followers of the Blind God Boash left Valyria for Lorath 1322 years before the Doom. That is a date that is reliably recorded. In game terms that is 6578 (with the Doom being 7900).
At that point Lorath had been a ruin for around 100 years since the Scouring of Lorath when the Valyrian's burned the lands of the High King of the Andals Qarlon the Great. Since Qarlon ruled all of Andalos which was populated by Andals and we know the Andals eventually migrated to flee the Valyrians, we can reasonably assume that this was the event that precipitated the Andal Invasion. So in game terms the Scouring of Lorath and begining of the Andal Invasion is around 6470.

So the Andal Invasion started around 6470 and was completed sometime before 7300 when Nymeria showed up.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Widowmaker94 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 02:31

Arcvalons wrote:All dates are highly speculative, some maesters claim the Andal invasions took place 600 years ago, others claim it were only 2000 years ago. Just chose a random date between 2000 and 6000 and go with that. Too bad the mod won't include Essos though, I'd like to play as the Rhoynar or the Valyrians at their strongest.

Essos is rather much for what's essentially a single person effort.

And for someone whose computer can't run the whole 'world' for more than maybe fifty years before the slowdown becomes completely intolerable.

Requiring setting the game on Observer mode for twelve hours to pass less than eighty years in-game after only twenty have passed beforehand.
And the Rhoynar and Valyrians would be... completely imbalanced. That said, I MIGHT consider an Essos EXPANSION after I've got the Westeros and Stepstones done and tested for a bit.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Arcvalons » Fri Jun 03, 2016 19:13

Well, the (fictional) history is not supposed to be balanced. But if you want I can help you with an hypothethical Essos expansion once you've finished with Westeros.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Hurjempi » Sat Dec 10, 2016 21:48

just out of interest are you still working on this? because the idea is simply awesome.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by zebraguy24 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 15:02

Hey Dude no worry's if your heart and souls in it you get it done. If you need any help writing fanfiction or any help lore wise I'm your guy. ;)
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Mistefar » Mon Dec 12, 2016 01:04

M8s been working on Black Mesa for 34 years, if you really want to get it done, you will get it done, sooner or later
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Widowmaker94 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 20:54

Hurjempi wrote:just out of interest are you still working on this? because the idea is simply awesome.

Off and on again. I got sidetracked by a project that was also to help improve my modding skills.

I also got a new PC.. so yeah.:oops:

zebraguy24 wrote:Hey Dude no worry's if your heart and souls in it you get it done. If you need any help writing fanfiction or any help lore wise I'm your guy. ;)

Heh, I'm actually somewhat confident. The toughest parts for me currently are the history files. Also dynasty and event art.

And icons, but my boyfriend is on the icon stuff.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by morale officer » Sun Dec 25, 2016 18:15

I feel like you have a lot to work with in the Old Gods DLC code for adventurers or landed nobles doing prepared invasions. This would help you balance the numbers game without making Andals by themselves OP. Thus you add a bit of randomness, to go along with the whole joys of 'rewriting history' but also work with an already existing code.

You could always have there be an 'Andal Migration Age' that is either timed to last X years, or make use of the difference between Andal and Riverman/Westerman/Valeman etc. it could be similar to the modifiers to make English culture in CK2.

If a person of 'Andal' culture lives in the Riverlands where the dominant culture would be 'First Men' then he has the event to eventually become 'Riverman' and thus loses the CB, but loses a 'different culture' penalty (or something of the sort.) All lands under his control with 'First Men' culture convert to the melting pot of 'Riverman' It woudln't, in my opinion, be a choice but rather a random chance event, like with English or Norman or Dutch culture.

Something to play with. I'm not a modder or coder so I'll leave the finer points to someone else, but it's a thought.

Does pose a problem of whether the submod would be playable to people without Old Gods DLC
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by Widowmaker94 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 21:36

morale officer wrote:I feel like you have a lot to work with in the Old Gods DLC code for adventurers or landed nobles doing prepared invasions. This would help you balance the numbers game without making Andals by themselves OP. Thus you add a bit of randomness, to go along with the whole joys of 'rewriting history' but also work with an already existing code.

You could always have there be an 'Andal Migration Age' that is either timed to last X years, or make use of the difference between Andal and Riverman/Westerman/Valeman etc. it could be similar to the modifiers to make English culture in CK2.

If a person of 'Andal' culture lives in the Riverlands where the dominant culture would be 'First Men' then he has the event to eventually become 'Riverman' and thus loses the CB, but loses a 'different culture' penalty (or something of the sort.) All lands under his control with 'First Men' culture convert to the melting pot of 'Riverman' It woudln't, in my opinion, be a choice but rather a random chance event, like with English or Norman or Dutch culture.

Something to play with. I'm not a modder or coder so I'll leave the finer points to someone else, but it's a thought.

Does pose a problem of whether the submod would be playable to people without Old Gods DLC


This is a good idea, honestly.:)
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by karmaepsilon » Tue Jan 03, 2017 09:12

I kinda agree with SBerger, I think a much easier way to "test the waters" would be a Timeline push back mod for a start date of the beginning of the Century of Blood (as opposed to the final years of it) or around when the Targaryens arrived where you'd have the last of the River Kings still ruling the Trident before losing it to the Storm and then the Iron Islands, and still have all the historic people data from the main mod as most dynasties active in the Bleeding Years start date have lines going back at least 3-4 generations. Often more.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:01

Your timeline is a bit wrong there karma. The last of the River Kings had been dead for a couple centuries before the Bleeding Years. Like just around the start of the Bleeding years is when House Hoare was conquering the Riverlands from House Durrandon, who had held it for multiple generations by then.
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Re: First Big Sub-Mod Project (Andal Invasion Era)

PostPosted by karmaepsilon » Tue Jan 03, 2017 16:51

LancelotLoire wrote:Your timeline is a bit wrong there karma. The last of the River Kings had been dead for a couple centuries before the Bleeding Years. Like just around the start of the Bleeding years is when House Hoare was conquering the Riverlands from House Durrandon, who had held it for multiple generations by then.

Huh thought there were a few that attempted it, just didn't get the full Trident, and Hoare had only reconquered it for about 2 generations at the initial Bleeding Years start.
Not a surprising confusion though, I definitely remember from my research for a possible fanfiction I was looking at writing that there are just specific kings for these events, not dates. So if I mixed up a generation I'd mix up a century lol
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