Who has the most skilled army

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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:43

The Marine corp are not the best snipers in the world lmao.

Simo Hayha - the White Death... 505 confirmed kills (the unconfirmed total could be even higher) << Should note, he did this alone... no spotter.

The Red Army....
Ivan Sidorenko 500
Ivan Kulbertinov 489
Nikolay Yakovlevich Ilyin 469
Vladimir Pchelintsev 456
Mikhail Budenkov 437
Fedir Dyachenko 425
Fyodor Okhlopkov 423
Vasilij Golosov 422
Stepan Petrenko 422

Skipping ahead on the list to US..
Chris Kyle 160 Navy SEAL
Adelbert Waldron 109 US Army
Chuck Mawhinney 103 US Marines
Herbert W. McBride 100+ Captain in Canadian Expeditonary Force WW1 << Before the US joined and won the war...
Carlos Hathcock 93 US Marines

That was from all time btw, in current times the US Army has a much better sniper force than the marines.

Also Jarheads tend to be known more for brawn over brains to be fair. But that's true for most infantry.
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:54

Kill count doesn't determine the quality of a sniper. Simo is tops though.
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:09

I am pretty sure the USMC does not have the best snipers in the world by far, also if you don't go off of kill count what arbitrary measurement are we using to determine their skill?
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:29

How about range and degree of difficulty. One of the sniper's duties is the precision elimination of select targets after all. As Chris Kyle said, "I had more kills, but that doesn’t mean I’m better than (Hathcock) is. I was just put into a position where I had more opportunities. I definitely cheated. I used a ballistic computer that tells me everything to do. So, I was just a monkey on a gun."
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:48

In terms of range... The top 8 Americans.. 4 Army, 2 Marines, 1 SEAL, 1 civilian. The 4 farthest in order are army, marine, army, SEAL.

Also I forgot to mention an important one of Vasily Zaytsev with 242 confirmed kills. His estimated kills were up over 400. 225 of which were all done in less than 2 months during the Battle of Stalingrad. 11 of which were enemy snipers. His tactics and such are still taught in sniper schools today.
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 14:13

And one of those 2 marines is hathcock, who has the 5th longest distance, was the 1st for some 35 years, and did it with one of these
Spoiler: show
Image

and a scope. Then went on to help form the Marine Scout Sniper school then taught snipers for other military branches and police departments. Also put a bullet through an enemy sniper's scope killing him.
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Fri Jul 15, 2016 22:46

That shot is what would be considered a once in a life time impossible shot. There are several cases of things like that taking place. Another shot termed "curved bullet" was where a sniper took out an enemy soldier manning a gun emplacement by aiming like 60 feet away from him. There were wind gusts that day which brings all kinds of luck into it. Not to mention that the soldier he was firing at was like almost entirely in cover makes this shot even more amazing.

Another sniper saw 3 insurgents moving to ambush his friends and took a shot moments after they walked behind a brick wall.. He killed all 3 with a single shot. Talk about killing 2 birds with 1 stone.. And this guy got 3 with 1!

Another one, that Adelbert Waldron sniped an enemy vietnamese from 900yards while on a moving boat.

Hathcock's shot down the enemy snipers scope is impressive but like the above ones it was pretty much all luck. Obviously these guys are all skilled enough to have made the shots because they did, but they can't take exclusive credit for making it. In Hathcock's case he didn't even know what he was aiming at. He saw a glint and took the shot. It could easily have been a wet rock reflecting light.
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 05:52

None of your points mean anything then, since it's all luck of the draw. Distance/difficulty don't matter because they were just lucky to get all the calculations correct, kills don't because they were just lucky to stumble on to enemies. Any position you take can easily be dismissed as "they got/could get lucky" and you've, basically, wasted yours and every one else's time by being in the discussion. So thanks, I guess?
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Sat Jul 16, 2016 09:51

No need to be a dick. My point was that difficulty/range of a shot are also arbitrary and not very good indicators of a quality sniper. A better indicator would be a mix of the following.. Total Kills, Time it took to achieve said numbers, How old were they when they died, and any nicknames they achieved.

Simo Häyhä for instance.. 505 confirmed kills, less than 100 days, 96, White Death.

Breakdown of why those things..
+Kill Count obviously shows how effective as a sniper he was. A sniper with a high kill count is doing his job. Simo has the highest kill count.
+The time it took to get that kill count shows even more how effective the sniper was. Simo was getting at least 5 kills a day.
+The actual age when they died doesn't matter at all. The main purpose of this is to show that the sniper survived the war that they were in.
+Nickname shows that damn... That dude was so feared that the enemy force actually gave them a nickname. And how freaking awesome of a nickname is the White Death.
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 09:52

Mans just salty cause you know Royal Marines > USMC ;)
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:23

Pointing out the flaws in logic is being a dick? When you dismissed skillful feats as luck(far more dick move than a sarcastic thanks), you invalidated the kill count argument you made, as explained(basically, fish in a barrel), which made your posts wastes of time.

Simo isn't the best because he got 500+ kills fast, it's his abilities, the fact he did it with iron sights, and that him and his compatriots, as snipers, pretty much single handedly halted the Red Army's invasion.

And 3 with 1 isn't some magic bullet stuff, he had an anti armor rifle(they fire penetrating explosive rounds) and they were bunched up behind a wall, effectively fired a grenade at them.

Nope,
SAS>SEALS
USMC>RM
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 13:01

SinStar87 wrote:SAS>SEALS
RM>USMC

Fixed that for you
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by Syrio » Thu Jul 21, 2016 19:24

Well this took a sharp turn :lol:
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Thu Jul 21, 2016 21:56

You could say it took an about face forward march.... Okay I'll see myself out
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 22:19

LancelotLoire wrote:You could say it took an about face forward march.... Okay I'll see myself out

That you should...
I have always preferred the British version of the commands compared to the american versions, about face always just sounded a bit weird compared to about turn
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 22:25

Well, somebody had to take on the task of fixing all your weird terminology and misspellings #colonizenotcolonise
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 22:36

Our terminology is amazing and our spelling beautiful. Just cause you have no honour or colour in your life ;)
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Thu Jul 21, 2016 22:45

Just wait till ninja realizes that the closest accent to how they spoke in England during the time of Shakespeare is actually like a Bostonian accent.
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by SinStar87 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 22:48

Hehe, seems we just do English better than the Brits.
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Re: Who has the most skilled army

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 22:58

By better do you mean highly simplified for a very simple group of people :p
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