about " dragon blood "

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about " dragon blood "

PostPosted by Themoonlightsculptor » Fri Dec 23, 2016 20:16

I was curious of how do you people feel about the Targaryen or valyrian in general and their dragonblood.At first I taught mayhaps the first valyrian sorcerer transformed some of their kin into dragon and that why the valyrian told of themselves that they are kin to dragon,considering how they were the first to tame dragon event thought they were dragon elsewhere. So I was making my valyrian playthrought and went looking for some lore about the dragonlord and valyrian.This guy and his theory is that the dragon taming origin can be explained by the dance of dragon, if you read the world of asoiaf they were two non valyrian dragonrider nettle and ser Ulf(the white). Nettle mounted sheepstealer by feeding him sheep regularly until the dragon trusted here.As the valyrian were themselves sheperds when old ghis was an empire maybe they simply did a nettle situation, then started the incest marriage to keep the dragon in the family and later learned some spell.Im not saying that they weren't skilled in more way than other human but maybe that dragonblood thing is just craps.(if martin confirm it we ought to change the Targaryen flip of event coin that give me so many genius heir).
The truth. as King Dezmod used to say, looking at the chamber pot after
relieving himself "The mind cannot comprehend this".
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Re: about " dragon blood "

PostPosted by UtariOnzo » Fri Dec 23, 2016 21:42

One thing to take into account is context of the writing. Martin's writing alludes to a more 'grimdark' version of medieval life thrown into a fantasy-lite setting.

The concept of Dragonblood fits in well to a fantasy trope, but the use of incest to keep the high valyrian blood pure is a nod to old practices among many late era, to early renaissance noble families to keep things 'in the blood' so to speak. Mostly it comes down to marrying cousins and the sort, a tradition and practice that remained entrenched right through to Victorian times.

It's also a nod to a few ancient Egyptian kings who married their sisters, as well as many other examples in near eastern proto-empires. The Valyrians are exotic, from the east with eastern beliefs and traditions when they arrive in Westeros.

From this context, I think the practice of Dragonblood is literally as described above, a more extreme practice of keeping one's nobility 'pure' so to speak by marrying into close relatives to create a strong, recordable lineage history, with a pseudo-religious nature to it thrown in to impress the plebian masses. The mythology of the past likely gets mixed in to further reinforce a belief in the divinity of the practice to the point it becomes an accepted 'truth' even by the practitioners, and not just the common folk.

I think you might also be on to something with the idea of keeping dragons 'in the family'. With many dragonlord families before the fall, their relative strengths would have been determined by whom had the most/biggest dragons as well as who had the greater wealth/freeholdings. Marrying especially a female dragorider into a rival family would, effectively, give them another dragon as the wife would join the husband's household, while leaving your own household one dragon less.

This is, of course, my interpretation given the way I view Martin's work as being history and fantasy smashed together with the grimdark turned up to 11. Of course all of this is subject to being proven totally false if/when Martin writes more about the Valyrians, their history and the origin of their practices.
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Re: about " dragon blood "

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Thu Dec 29, 2016 06:10

Quick little fix on facts.
Ulf the White, Hugh Hammer and Nettles were all dragonseed. IE: unclaimed bastards of Targ/Velaryons, bastards or baseborn children of unclaimed bastards of Targ/Velaryons.
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Re: about " dragon blood "

PostPosted by Soulbourne » Wed Jan 11, 2017 19:15

My only comment: Dragon dreams. Targaryens get them but even baratheons despite several links to the targs do not as far as I'm aware. Not sure about valyrions. The fact that bastard houses that distance themselves from the high valyrion bloodline dont have dragon dreams seems to indicate that their is something into blood purity traditions.

As for how this started, I would link a slightly NSFW parody about skyrim and how dragonborn have the powers to mate with dragons as a joke, but no idea where I'd find it.
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Re: about " dragon blood "

PostPosted by suvantar » Wed Jan 11, 2017 19:26

LancelotLoire wrote:Quick little fix on facts.
Ulf the White, Hugh Hammer and Nettles were all dragonseed. IE: unclaimed bastards of Targ/Velaryons, bastards or baseborn children of unclaimed bastards of Targ/Velaryons.


The wiki indicates that it's unconfirmed whether the dragonseeds all had high Valyrian blood, leaving open the possibility that it might be a case of the 'tail wagging the dog,' so to speak. Ie, that it was in House Targaeryan's interests for it to be widely accepted that 'only those of high Valyrian blood could become dragonriders and there's never been a case of any other race doing it.'

So the histories just leave it as 'accepted' that all of the dragonseed were Targ/Velaryon bastards.
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Re: about " dragon blood "

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Mon Jan 16, 2017 15:18

Direct quote from the World Book
"On Dragonstone, where the Targaryens had long ruled, the common folk had seen their beautiful, foreign rulers almost as gods. Many maids deflowered by Targaryen lords accounted themselves blessed if a “dragonseed” was planted in their womb, and for this reason there were many on Dragonstone who could rightly claim—or at least suspect—that some Targaryen blood ran in their veins."

Another important thing to remember is that the only people who didn't belong to House Velaryon or Targaryen to ride a Targy dragon were those 3 people. Makes it pretty much a given that they were in fact legitimate.
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Re: about " dragon blood "

PostPosted by DorlasAnther » Sat Jan 21, 2017 15:33

To be fair, nobody else besides Targaryens and Velaryons was allowed to ride dragons. Dragons were seen as property of Targaryens and the only place where people could tame wild dragon was Dragonstone, where Targaryens were almost seen as gods. My bet is nobody even thought of taming their own dragon before Dance of Dragons. This is really just a case of "we don´t have enough evidence to say anything".
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Re: about " dragon blood "

PostPosted by Themoonlightsculptor » Sat May 27, 2017 15:44

Well my bad on the dragonseed parts. That would mean the ancient valyrian nobility made some sort of AOT pact or themselves came from dragon...I hope not and in there haven't really been case that we know of were non-dragonseed tried to mount dragon to the best of my knowledge. I just hope martin isn't going for a master magical race or at least come up with a good explanation.

edit : just found out no dragon seed were also given the opportunity but only the supposed dragonseed succeded.
The truth. as King Dezmod used to say, looking at the chamber pot after
relieving himself "The mind cannot comprehend this".
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