Valyrian Steel

For any general subject related to the mod

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 13:14

Nope there is literally no record saved of previous artifact holders in the game state, it is just plain not recorded by the engine.
Graduate Content Designer on Crusader Kings 2

If a post is edited in this colour then it was done by me for moderation.

My Sub-Mods:
Bloodlines Sub-Mod
More Decisions Sub-Mod
Colonise Valyiria and Challenge to Duel
Duel Recorder
More Bookmarks
User avatar
blackninja9939
Moderator
 
Posts: 5602
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:50
Location: England

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Tue Apr 18, 2017 13:17

blackninja9939 wrote:Nope there is literally no record saved of previous artifact holders in the game state, it is just plain not recorded by the engine.


Well, shit.
I can see why you're reluctant to implement that then, although I'd still take the aesthetics and consistency over the history. Guess I'll have to hope for some kind soul to make a submod.
DownTheDrain
 
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 17:14

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by WbtE » Wed Apr 19, 2017 05:21

DownTheDrain wrote:
blackninja9939 wrote:Nope there is literally no record saved of previous artifact holders in the game state, it is just plain not recorded by the engine.


Well, shit.
I can see why you're reluctant to implement that then, although I'd still take the aesthetics and consistency over the history. Guess I'll have to hope for some kind soul to make a submod.


I don't think it's either/or, though. Couldn't the has_artifact trigger be used to slap a largely functionless trait like "bearer of [whatever]", saying that at one time they held the blade, on anyone who has ever held the sword? If that works, then blade lineages wouldn't get broken when swords are gifted during the lifetime of the wielder. (Currently a problem with Longclaw, for instance.)
WbtE
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 04:26

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 09:42

Yes we could do that but if we do that then what is the point of moving away from the traits in the first place? We are still using the traits but also artifacts, may as well just keep it as the traits. Totally superfluous to add both in.
Graduate Content Designer on Crusader Kings 2

If a post is edited in this colour then it was done by me for moderation.

My Sub-Mods:
Bloodlines Sub-Mod
More Decisions Sub-Mod
Colonise Valyiria and Challenge to Duel
Duel Recorder
More Bookmarks
User avatar
blackninja9939
Moderator
 
Posts: 5602
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:50
Location: England

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by WbtE » Wed Apr 19, 2017 09:57

blackninja9939 wrote:Yes we could do that but if we do that then what is the point of moving away from the traits in the first place? We are still using the traits but also artifacts, may as well just keep it as the traits. Totally superfluous to add both in.


You wanted the traits to show the history. They don't currently do that, because they're tied to the effects of the sword. So when Longclaw is gifted to Jon Snow, the trait must be taken off the Old Bear and the game's history forgets that he ever had it. That means the current system isn't doing what you said you want it to do.

Nor does the current system satisfy people like DownTheDrain who want the sword to show up in the treasury.

Using the hybrid approach (sword as artifact and a "this person once wielded this blade" trait) results in a better history and a better appearance. It's not superfluous, it's superior.
WbtE
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 04:26

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:00

Honestly the artifact system is kind of meh
User avatar
LancelotLoire
 
Posts: 2589
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 16:32

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:10

WbtE wrote:
blackninja9939 wrote:Yes we could do that but if we do that then what is the point of moving away from the traits in the first place? We are still using the traits but also artifacts, may as well just keep it as the traits. Totally superfluous to add both in.


You wanted the traits to show the history. They don't currently do that, because they're tied to the effects of the sword. So when Longclaw is gifted to Jon Snow, the trait must be taken off the Old Bear and the game's history forgets that he ever had it. That means the current system isn't doing what you said you want it to do.

Nor does the current system satisfy people like DownTheDrain who want the sword to show up in the treasury.

Using the hybrid approach (sword as artifact and a "this person once wielded this blade" trait) results in a better history and a better appearance. It's not superfluous, it's superior.

It shows who held it on death which is what I meant when I said previous holders. The artifact system shows nothing like that at all.
It is superfluous, we have a perfectly working system. The artifact system is objectively worse except for looking nicer and that is not that big of a deal as we have had the current system for plenty of time without issue. Adding both artifacts and traits just adds clutter.
Graduate Content Designer on Crusader Kings 2

If a post is edited in this colour then it was done by me for moderation.

My Sub-Mods:
Bloodlines Sub-Mod
More Decisions Sub-Mod
Colonise Valyiria and Challenge to Duel
Duel Recorder
More Bookmarks
User avatar
blackninja9939
Moderator
 
Posts: 5602
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:50
Location: England

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by Enriador » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:01

WbtE wrote:
blackninja9939 wrote:Yes we could do that but if we do that then what is the point of moving away from the traits in the first place? We are still using the traits but also artifacts, may as well just keep it as the traits. Totally superfluous to add both in.


You wanted the traits to show the history. They don't currently do that, because they're tied to the effects of the sword. So when Longclaw is gifted to Jon Snow, the trait must be taken off the Old Bear and the game's history forgets that he ever had it. That means the current system isn't doing what you said you want it to do.

Nor does the current system satisfy people like DownTheDrain who want the sword to show up in the treasury.

Using the hybrid approach (sword as artifact and a "this person once wielded this blade" trait) results in a better history and a better appearance. It's not superfluous, it's superior.


I couldn't agree more! It's a shame it won't get added (for now eh?), the Treasury system perfectly fits within the game structure.

Don't despair though. We have amazing-looking, immortal ZORSES in our Treasuries, that's what matters! :lol:
Enriador
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 16:23

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:20

WbtE wrote:Using the hybrid approach (sword as artifact and a "this person once wielded this blade" trait) results in a better history and a better appearance. It's not superfluous, it's superior.


For what it's worth, I completely agree and I appreciate you bringing this up.
It would be particularly nice if the "once-wielded X" modifier only showed up after death/losing the blade.

Anyway, the devs apparently aren't convinced so I'll keep hoping for a submod.
DownTheDrain
 
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 17:14

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by WbtE » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:57

OK, well let's talk about a submod.

Off the top of my head, I think an "ugly" version would only involve a handful of files and in the case of valyrian_steel_decisions.txt switching to the artifact/trait method would be mostly deletion. I say it would be "ugly" because I think the main mod uses swords to supply text in a few other files. Funerals should work fine so long as the tokens for the old sword traits are used for the new sword-bearer tokens (i.e. the descriptions are changed but the script uses the old names), but I can't help thinking that the dueling engine also uses valyrian swords for text outputs and that could occasionally produce strange results. (Then again, anyone who has got to the point of giving up their valyrian steel is probably past the point of winning duels.)
WbtE
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 04:26

Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by TMLC » Wed Apr 19, 2017 23:44

Truly, to turn them into artifacts (instead of traits) seems a lot of work for no real gain. I don’t have a problem with the current system and can’t see the usefulness of changing it.
User avatar
TMLC
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 04:27
Location: Brasil

Previous

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests