Valyrian Steel

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Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by robbstark5 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 14:02

Will family swords become treasures or will they remain as traits?
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 15:04

Maybe
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by kts230 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 20:33

I would love this feature :D
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by Guillem15 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 14:50

Yes, that would be perfect. Because the Valyrian Steel its a treasure for a family.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by Sokar408 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 01:34

robbstark5 wrote:Will family swords become treasures or will they remain as traits?


This would seem to be the logical way to go, now that there is a build in system for it. But I imagine it would be a lot of hassle to change.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 09:47

Not hassle so much but instead that you cannot see previous owners of the artifacts
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by Enriador » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:43

blackninja9939 wrote:Not hassle so much but instead that you cannot see previous owners of the artifacts


Never knew we could check previous owners of swords! Going to look at it.

The Treasury system does allow to show the original owner, and it's so well-built that even if it doesn't show all previous owners, the change would be worth it. After all, we can equip items, give them away with a nice interface, make some items only useful under certain circunstamces (no 8-year old Rickon gaining martial bonus from Ice) etc.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:51

Enriador wrote:
blackninja9939 wrote:Not hassle so much but instead that you cannot see previous owners of the artifacts


Never knew we could check previous owners of swords! Going to look at it.

The Treasury system does allow to show the original owner, and it's so well-built that even if it doesn't show all previous owners, the change would be worth it. After all, we can equip items, give them away with a nice interface, make some items only useful under certain circunstamces (no 8-year old Rickon gaining martial bonus from Ice) etc.

Well the traits show up on dead people so you can easily see it, you cannot do that with artifacts. Even it showing the original owner is pretty useless, like who is the original owner of Ice and Blackfyre? When were they created?
Also those bonuses from artifacts are something we can already do just via script instead, the interface make much less difference and equipping them or not is not important as the bonus from the swords have not stacked for many versions. The tiny thing of a martial bonus at a young age is nothing compared to actually being able to see all the holder of a sword.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by wahrhorse » Wed Apr 12, 2017 14:11

also currently when it says "original owner" it often only goes back to the first holder during the play session, not the canonical first holder, kinda breaking immersion. I don't know if this is fixable, or even useful (as ninja pointed out)
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by lordcommander » Wed Apr 12, 2017 14:52

Can they stay a trait? I like having a valyrian steel as a trait, because I never care to explore the whole artifact thing.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by KappaKid » Wed Apr 12, 2017 23:17

I am of the opinion overall that they're better as traits. The only real plus side to changing them is that currently you're better off stacking all your swords on your leader as opposed to only being able to wield one and perhaps gifting out the others to branch families and the like.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by Soulbourne » Thu Apr 13, 2017 22:34

Technically you are only able to wield one. While having multiple stacks the +0.25 prestige, which makes sense since anyone who owns a dozen valyrian steel swords is bound to have some attention thrown their way, but the actual martial duel and stuff comes from a modifier as of a few versions ago, which only appears once. Having multiple ones doesn't actually boost your stats any higher except prestige as they just simply set in your castles trophy room gathering dust when not being shown off.

That said, I agree they should remain traits for tracking through families and such via the actual trait. The current system works quite well for what is needed, and if anything I'd prefer the trait system be expanded upon if any changes are made. That said, I doubt things like granting out swords to a person as a grant that returns to you when they die or tying the sword to a landed title are going to be of immediate need in the mod. Things work out well enough as is, and I'm happy with the way they do work out. Even if I never really feel any of my family is worthy of dark sister.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by Lord_Verkos » Thu Apr 13, 2017 22:44

An issue that could arise from having them remain as traits and having other swords as artifacts is receiving bonus from both at the same time that you would not necessarily have from it being only artifacts, if that makes sense.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by Soulbourne » Thu Apr 13, 2017 22:55

Yes, like duel wielding a two handed mace and blackfyre. However, I believe the other bonuses from weapons helps balance this slightly, especially since I believe most of the valyrian steel weapons are more side arms than battlefield weapons. If it's a one handed sword or axe it's generally a secondary weapon, while for nobles of the high medieval setting utilizing two handed weapons like maces, poleaxes, pikes, or what have you as primary weapons in battlefields.

That said, I'm not sure that westeros goes into this level of historical detail on side arms vs battlefield weapons. But if we ignore that it could fit as a justification.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by Joron Corbie » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:22

I would love seeing them as artifacts in the treasury but I can understand that this would cause quite a bit of extra work at least if you are to keep at the named blades looking somewhat like they do in their descriptions. I don't really care about being able to see the previous users of the blades, I don't think I've even sat down to check that once. Just my two cents, I don't expect it to happen. Thanks for all the work you guys put into the mod
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:02

Joron Corbie wrote:I would love seeing them as artifacts in the treasury but I can understand that this would cause quite a bit of extra work at least if you are to keep at the named blades looking somewhat like they do in their descriptions. I don't really care about being able to see the previous users of the blades, I don't think I've even sat down to check that once. Just my two cents, I don't expect it to happen. Thanks for all the work you guys put into the mod


My thoughts exactly.
I'd love them as artifacts but getting them right would probably be quite an undertaking. Maybe someone with a talent for it could start this as a submod that eventually might get implemented into the main mod
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:13

It is not that we can't make them artifacts, we can. There is just no real benefit to doing so at this point in time.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:24

blackninja9939 wrote:It is not that we can't make them artifacts, we can. There is just no real benefit to doing so at this point in time.


From a strictly technical standpoint maybe not, but I'd argue it would look better and feel much more consistent.
Plus the traits bar can get really crowded for some characters.

It's by no means a must-have, but if it can be done in a somewhat appealing way I'd absolutely love it.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:27

The only bonus is aesthetics, you could argue equipping them but we have that handled by only giving one bonus anyway. The drawback is that, as mentioned in this thread before, you cannot see who has previously held an artifact. Only their original owner which is useless.
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Re: Valyrian Steel

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:48

blackninja9939 wrote:The only bonus is aesthetics, you could argue equipping them but we have that handled by only giving one bonus anyway. The drawback is that, as mentioned in this thread before, you cannot see who has previously held an artifact. Only their original owner which is useless.


Alright, let's settle just for aesthetics then, that would already be enough for me. Although I do feel that it's a bit silly to have your ancestral sword in the traits bar and your crown, lance, mace, whathaveyou in the treasury.

Is there a possible workaround to the previous owners problem or would that be something we'd have to live with?
I mean you guys did a great job with the dragons, sword owners, members of the kingsguard, etc. in the intrigue tab so maybe the history of a Valyrian blade could be accessible from there as well.
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