Please include these submods in the main mod

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Please include these submods in the main mod

PostPosted by Ktulu » Sat Apr 08, 2017 02:10

Podrick pussy killer wrote:3.- If theres a new update on the version it would be possible to add the seed is strong to the mod? considering the whole dynastic appearence is one of the biggest parts of the books


Agreed.

Can you PLEASE tell us you'll add The Seed is Strong? :cry:
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Re: Please include these submods in the main mod

PostPosted by Aleros » Mon Apr 10, 2017 16:38

Ktulu wrote:
Podrick pussy killer wrote:3.- If theres a new update on the version it would be possible to add the seed is strong to the mod? considering the whole dynastic appearence is one of the biggest parts of the books


Agreed.

Can you PLEASE tell us you'll add The Seed is Strong? :cry:


I also agree. I can't play the mod without the seed is strong submod. It just makes so much sense to include in the main mod, especially if the team polishes it up a bit.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Mon Apr 10, 2017 17:56

Aleros wrote:
Ktulu wrote:
Podrick pussy killer wrote:3.- If theres a new update on the version it would be possible to add the seed is strong to the mod? considering the whole dynastic appearence is one of the biggest parts of the books


Agreed.

Can you PLEASE tell us you'll add The Seed is Strong? :cry:


I also agree. I can't play the mod without the seed is strong submod. It just makes so much sense to include in the main mod, especially if the team polishes it up a bit.


There's a number of submods I don't really want to play without but others may feel differently, so keeping them submods makes sense in my opinion.
Any particular reason why this one absolutely has to be part of the main mod?
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by Podrick pussy killer » Mon Apr 10, 2017 20:47

DownTheDrain wrote:3.- If theres a new update on the version it would be possible to add the seed is strong to the mod? considering the whole dynastic appearence is one of the biggest parts of the books


Agreed.

Can you PLEASE tell us you'll add The Seed is Strong? :cry:[/quote]

I also agree. I can't play the mod without the seed is strong submod. It just makes so much sense to include in the main mod, especially if the team polishes it up a bit.[/quote]
There's a number of submods I don't really want to play without but others may feel differently, so keeping them submods makes sense in my opinion.
Any particular reason why this one absolutely has to be part of the main mod?[/quote]
Extracted directly from the submods description
Creates special dynasty appearance and more-less save them for them in generations:
Baratheon - Black Hair, Dark-blue eyes
Lannister - Blonde Hair, Green eyes
Tully - Auburn Hair, Blue-(little purple) eyes
Stark - Dark Brown Hair, Grey eyes
Greyjoy - Black Hair, Any eyes
Martell - Black Hair, Brown eyes
Tyrell - Brown Hair, Brown or Gold eyes
Hoare - Black Hair, Black eyes
Reyne - Red Hair, Any eyes
So yeah basically it adds the Dynastic looks to the houses above something that GRRM has been recalling through the hole series to be something REALLY important
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by superninja76 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 21:21

I agree with above, bu5 you neglected to mention velaryon! They have valyrian features, and they aren't very gross.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Mon Apr 10, 2017 22:23

Podrick pussy killer wrote:So yeah basically it adds the Dynastic looks to the houses above something that GRRM has been recalling through the hole series to be something REALLY important


I've read the mod's description and what you listed is not all it does.

Leaving that aside, is it actually something really important throughout the whole series or just important when it comes to Cersei's children? Maybe it's been too long since I've read the books but do we actually know that all those dynasties have defining hair (and sometimes eye) color throughout their entire history?

I could see the point for the Baratheons having black hair and maybe the Lannisters being blond, but is there source material saying that the House Tully has had auburn hair or House Stark grey eyes for hundreds of years and not just a generation or two?
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by NightWatchman » Mon Apr 10, 2017 23:54

What are all of you people who are asking for inclusion of the seed is strong on about? I like that submod well enough, don't get me wrong, but it's not accurate lore-wise at all. We know very specifically that genetics works more or less in a "regular" fashion, or at least mix, in Westeros--House Stark's heirs all look like Tully's (auburn hair) except for Jon (R+L=J?) and Arya. We also know that several Targaryen bastards have had black hair (but kept the purple eyes) when their mothers weren't high valyrian. "The seed is strong" specifically referred to the fact that Baratheons are traditionally dark haired and Lannisters are blond and dark haired genes overpower light haired genes. Ned is basically the Westerosi equivalent of of Mendel, that's all. The submod is fine, and adds a bit of flavor, and that's cool, if you want to play with it it should be available, but it absolutely should not be part of the base game at all.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by Azsouth » Tue Apr 11, 2017 04:10

well if they are taking requests for sub-mod inclusions to the base game, personally I would love to see Lances CTO included (CTO adds a lot of different traits as well as character looks, that way also Lance no longer has to re-do the entire sub-mod every time an update comes out and can live his life instead of getting dragged back by everyone who wants to use his sub-mod in the newest versions), Ninja's Bloodlines (yes the newer version gives an option to the game rules) and More Decisions, a more in depth duel recorder (maybe something similar to the white book describing the characters you have fought and beat or are known tourny winners), as well as Challenge to a duel, a version of the kingsguard ambition, Sins: Dragon Tamer laws, Kinslaying is criminal, a version of Royal Progress's, Siege prisoners, visit chambers. maybe as a test make all of them game rules
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by hartnettsm » Tue Apr 11, 2017 05:29

Is there any way to create a poll board for mods like the ones you just listed? ASSUMING that they meet requirements to a "certain degree of accuracy" lore-wise why not set it to a vote. And by vote I mean set a number of users that have to be subscribed to that particular mod. If it reaches the required number of people it'll get included in the main mod as a matter of course BUT set as an optional game rule. If you don't WANT to use it you wouldn't have to but it would still be available for all the people that do.

of course I'm a T0tAl n00b so I don't know if that's actually realistic or worthwhile but it'd be neat. I personally don't enjoy the game as much without blackninjas bloodlines, A LOT of Sinstar's stuff, or Lance's Congenital Traits, and I'd imagine that there's a LOT of people that feel the same about a couple of the most heavily utilized sub-mods.

As an outsider looking in the only obvious difficulty is that it extends the time between updates because there's more material to update to vanilla updates.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by Ktulu » Tue Apr 11, 2017 06:01

NightWatchman wrote:What are all of you people who are asking for inclusion of the seed is strong on about? I like that submod well enough, don't get me wrong, but it's not accurate lore-wise at all. We know very specifically that genetics works more or less in a "regular" fashion, or at least mix, in Westeros--House Stark's heirs all look like Tully's (auburn hair) except for Jon (R+L=J?) and Arya. We also know that several Targaryen bastards have had black hair (but kept the purple eyes) when their mothers weren't high valyrian. "The seed is strong" specifically referred to the fact that Baratheons are traditionally dark haired and Lannisters are blond and dark haired genes overpower light haired genes. Ned is basically the Westerosi equivalent of of Mendel, that's all. The submod is fine, and adds a bit of flavor, and that's cool, if you want to play with it it should be available, but it absolutely should not be part of the base game at all.


First of all I think we should forget about everything we learned in school about dominant/recessive genes when we talk about a series of fantasy books. It is (very) clear that George's world has a completely different genetic system. Or how else could the Lannisters keep their blonde hairs for thousands of years? Because Lannisters do have blonde hair since Lann the Clever, it is known (well there is even a very old tale that tries to explain their look: about how Lann the Clever "stole" gold from the sun to brighten his hair). So no matter who they married along the years, bam: blondes.
Meanwhile in the game (without the submod) the Lannisters usually give up their golden heads in a few generations.

And it's not just the Lannisters. All the ancient and powerful houses in Westeros have their "look", and maybe this is some kind of explanation on how these families could endure so many wars, changes, and diseases for thousands of years: their seed is somehow stronger, they managed to live long enough to breed and keep their lines (and traits, and looks) going. Might be a blessing from the gods, might be the world's weird genetics, but the fact is: George writes clearly about "the Lannister look", "the Tully look", the "Stark look" and so on, so it implies that they've looked like that for many centuries.

As to the "why Robb/Bran/Rickon" look like Tullys and not Starks:
It's understandable (and a thing present in the submod) that when two strong-blooded houses marry, you never know who the child's looks will favor.
Except of course when one of those houses is Baratheon, as Ned Stark and Jon Arryn figured out. Another thing that George states very clearly.

As to Targaryens: their ethnicity is high valyrian, the same as many other houses before the Doom of Valyria. They had to marry brother and sister to keep their bloodline pure and their ethnicity untouched. It is a different matter from the westerosi Daynes and their historic purple eyes, for example.

So it is accurate lore-wise.
It makes absolutely no sense in the real world but yes, it is accurate in Westeros.
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Re: Please include these submods in the main mod

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:30

Not sure where this whole give submods and we will include them idea is coming from but if you are gonna have a chat about it then I here is a separate thread to do it so they are not all put in the release post :)
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:47

Ktulu wrote:And it's not just the Lannisters. All the ancient and powerful houses in Westeros have their "look", and maybe this is some kind of explanation on how these families could endure so many wars, changes, and diseases for thousands of years: their seed is somehow stronger, they managed to live long enough to breed and keep their lines (and traits, and looks) going. Might be a blessing from the gods, might be the world's weird genetics, but the fact is: George writes clearly about "the Lannister look", "the Tully look", the "Stark look" and so on, so it implies that they've looked like that for many centuries.


Please provide your source(s).
The Lannisters and Baratheons I agree with, but I'd love to get an exact description of what the other great houses have looked like for "thousands of years". Either I missed that part or it's been too long since I've read the books, but if GRRM "writes clearly" about it you can certainly point out where.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by Ktulu » Tue Apr 11, 2017 16:44

DownTheDrain wrote:
Please provide your source(s).
The Lannisters and Baratheons I agree with, but I'd love to get an exact description of what the other great houses have looked like for "thousands of years". Either I missed that part or it's been too long since I've read the books, but if GRRM "writes clearly" about it you can certainly point out where.


About the Tullys:

A Game of Thrones, Sansa Chapter, page 191
Littlefinger talks to Sansa:
"You have the Tully look".


So, the Tully look is a thing. Please note that Littlefinger didn't say "you look like Cat", or "you look like grandpa Hoster", no. He said "You have the Tully look". This look:


A Game of Thrones, Jon Chapter, page 62
Jon describes Cat:
"Her long auburn hair was dull and tangled."


A Game of Thrones, Catelyn Chapter, page 232
Cat describes Blackfish:
"time had stolen the auburn from his hair and left him only grey"



A Game of Thrones, Catelyn Chapter, page 241
Cat describes Lysa:
"All that remained of her sister’s beauty was the great fall of thick auburn hair that cascaded to her waist."


A Game of Thrones, Catelyn Chapter, page 499
Cat describes Edmure:
"Ser Edmure Tully was a stocky young man with a shaggy head of auburn hair and a fiery beard"


A Game of Thrones, Bran Chapter, page 13
Bran describes Robb:
"He was big and broad and growing every day, with his mother’s coloring, the fair skin, red-brown hair, and blue eyes of the Tullys of Riverrun."


And the Starks:

A Game of Thrones, Sansa Chapter, page 92
About Jon, Arya and the Stark look:
"She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks".


The long face and brown hair of the Starks.


A Game of Thrones, Catelyn Chapter, page 41
"Ned turned away from them to gaze out the window, his long face silent and thoughtful".


Now the icy grey eyes of the Starks:

A Game of Thrones, Catelyn Chapter, page 283
About Brandon Stark:
"And her betrothed looked at her with the cool grey eyes of a Stark and promised to spare the boy who loved her."


A Feast for Crows, Sam Chapter, page 67
"It was Lord Snow who faced him now, grey eyes as hard as ice."


A Game of Thrones, Eddard Chapter, page 322
"The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice"


I think it's written clearly enough. I could show some more examples but this post would be huge.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Tue Apr 11, 2017 17:21

Ktulu wrote:I think it's written clearly enough. I could show some more examples but this post would be huge.


Alright, those are nice quotes but they don't really cover my question.
I wasn't asking about appearances of the last 2 or 3 generations and you didn't just claim that all living Tullys or Starks have a certain look, you spoke of many centuries or even thousands of years.

If The Seed is Strong only applied to the more recent bookmarks I wouldn't have bothered, but is there anything in the source material saying that houses other than Baratheon and Lannister already had a specific look during the time of Aegon's Conquest?
The wiki entry on Torrhen Stark, for instance, doesn't even list his predecessor and successor, let alone what he or any of them may have looked like.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by Kainser » Tue Apr 11, 2017 17:28

Ktulu wrote:
DownTheDrain wrote:
Please provide your source(s).
The Lannisters and Baratheons I agree with, but I'd love to get an exact description of what the other great houses have looked like for "thousands of years". Either I missed that part or it's been too long since I've read the books, but if GRRM "writes clearly" about it you can certainly point out where.

*snip*


All those examples are more realistically interpreted as "You look a lot like your immediate family" than "all starks/whatever for thousands of years have been clones"

Anyway, gonna chime in with my opinion which is please don't implement this submod into the main mod.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by Ktulu » Tue Apr 11, 2017 17:48

DownTheDrain wrote:but is there anything in the source material saying that houses other than Baratheon and Lannister already had a specific look during the time of Aegon's Conquest?



If Baratheon and Lannister, as you said, had a specific look during the time of Aegon's Conquest then why wouldn't the other great houses as well?
Especially when the author describes the "Tully look" and the "Stark look" repeatedly?

It's a matter of interpretation, but if you need a direct description of all the great the houses during the Conquest to agree with me, then you will never agree with me.

Which is fine, I merely wanted to avoid (legitimate) blonde Baratheons and redhead Lannisters during the gameplays.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Tue Apr 11, 2017 17:57

Ktulu wrote:If Baratheon and Lannister, as you said, had a specific look during the time of Aegon's Conquest then why wouldn't the other great houses as well?
Especially when the author describes the "Tully look" and the "Stark look" repeatedly?


Why wouldn't they?
Well, why the hell would they for that matter?

I could just as easily argue that if all houses kept their dynastic look over centuries then the Lannisters all being blonde or the (male) Baratheons all having black hair wouldn't have been such a special thing.

It's a matter of interpretation, but if you need a direct description of all the great the houses during the Conquest to agree with me, then you will never agree with me.

Which is fine, I merely wanted to avoid (legitimate) blonde Baratheons and redhead Lannisters during the gameplays.


I don't need a description of all houses at all times, a reliable source stating that they've looked a particular way for hundreds of years would suffice. And I'm not stopping you from using the submod, I'm merely questioning if it is canon enough that it absolutely has to be included in the main mod.
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Re: Please include these submods in the main mod

PostPosted by Shades of Darkness » Tue Apr 11, 2017 18:05

DownTheDrain wrote:
Ktulu wrote:I think it's written clearly enough. I could show some more examples but this post would be huge.


Alright, those are nice quotes but they don't really cover my question.
I wasn't asking about appearances of the last 2 or 3 generations and you didn't just claim that all living Tullys or Starks have a certain look, you spoke of many centuries or even thousands of years.

If The Seed is Strong only applied to the more recent bookmarks I wouldn't have bothered, but is there anything in the source material saying that houses other than Baratheon and Lannister already had a specific look during the time of Aegon's Conquest?
The wiki entry on Torrhen Stark, for instance, doesn't even list his predecessor and successor, let alone what he or any of them may have looked like.


Well according to http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Stark The Stark look consists of a long face, a lean build, dark brown hair and grey eyes.
Members of house Kastark also share this look they have brown hair and blue-grey eye according to http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Karstark.

Archmaester Hake referred to members of House Hoare as being "black of hair, black of eye, and black of heart".
Harmund II Hoare married a Lannister and it seems the Hoare traits were dominant over the Lannister features, as there is no mention of the children of this union inheriting their mother's features.

According to http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Tully Members of House Tully tend to have fair skin, red-brown (i.e. auburn) hair, and blue eyes in a variety of shades.
Hoster had blue eyes and brown hair, whilst his brother and children have auburn hair.
Elmo Tully the Lord of Riverrun during the Dance of Dragons is depicted in the The World of Ice and Fire as having brown hair.
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by Ktulu » Tue Apr 11, 2017 18:18

*edit* Shades of Darkness already said it
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Re: [RELEASE] A Game of Thrones v1.4

PostPosted by DownTheDrain » Tue Apr 11, 2017 18:32

Ktulu wrote:
DownTheDrain wrote:I could just as easily argue that if all houses kept their dynastic look over centuries then the Lannisters all being blonde or the (male) Baratheons all having black hair wouldn't have been such a special thing.


*edit* the post above was faster than me

But once again, if you don't want to agree, it's fine.


*sigh*

The Stark look consists of a long face, a lean build, dark brown hair and grey eyes.[4][5][6][7][8]

4. ↑ A Game of Thrones, Chapter 13, Tyrion II.
5. ↑ A Game of Thrones, Chapter 15, Sansa I.
6. ↑ 6.0 6.1 6.2 A Game of Thrones, Chapter 40, Catelyn VII.
7. ↑ A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 12, Reek I.
8. ↑ A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 20, Reek II.


That's basically the same stuff you've quoted before.
Unless I'm mistaken all of those sources are about the Starks of today, going back a generation or two at most. There doesn't seem to be anything in there about all Starks looking a particular way for hundreds of years as you and others have claimed.
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