What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

For any general subject related to the mod

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by Exakter » Tue Sep 12, 2017 01:28

it was in a dev diary over a year ago where they mentioned their main focus on CK2 wouldn't be adding in massive new systems/maps/massive content ala conclave/horse lords, but that they'd work on smaller dlcs/flavor with emphasis on other new projects. (I assumed Stellaris/HoI4 were their focus).
Exakter
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 04:15

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:49

Exakter wrote:it was in a dev diary over a year ago where they mentioned their main focus on CK2 wouldn't be adding in massive new systems/maps/massive content ala conclave/horse lords, but that they'd work on smaller dlcs/flavor with emphasis on other new projects. (I assumed Stellaris/HoI4 were their focus).

That does not mean the main devs have moved projects ;)
Graduate Content Designer on Project Caligula

My amazingly empty Twitter account: @blackninja9939

Posts edited in this colour were done by me for moderation.

My Sub-Mods:
Bloodlines
More Decisions
Colonise Valyiria and Challenge to Duel
More Bookmarks
User avatar
blackninja9939
Moderator
 
Posts: 5688
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:50
Location: England

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by PallyWC » Tue Sep 12, 2017 18:40

I think this could possible be used to answer ayra's, "Essos is east and Westeros is west, but what's west of Westeros?" query or mayhaps Sothoryos/Uthlos...ie an offmap explorer quest as opposed to conquest...possibly with a bonus for the person who owns Koj... bonuses to sea raiding cultures balanced against their diplomacy/learning/traits...
PallyWC
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 18:41

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by DominusNovus » Wed Sep 13, 2017 14:34

Though I still am in the camp that thinks it could work well for interacting with the Great Other/Others in general, I do have to agree with other posters that, depending on the flexibility, the Emperor interface would work well for both the Iron Bank, and various gods that have been proven to exist (mainly, R'hllor and the Old Gods).
DominusNovus
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 06:29

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 16:38

None of those Gods have been proven to exist in the lore at all. Only the magic of their worshipers and in most cases they are shown only from a single character or a set of very few (Melisandre) or be presented as a racial trait (Children of the Forest/First Man genetics).

Also with regards to using it for White Walkers, outside of sacrificing your kids what actions would you propose to gain "grace"? And outside of a peace deal what actions would you suggest for spending the "grace". As those are the only two we have from the primary lore source of Craster.
Graduate Content Designer on Project Caligula

My amazingly empty Twitter account: @blackninja9939

Posts edited in this colour were done by me for moderation.

My Sub-Mods:
Bloodlines
More Decisions
Colonise Valyiria and Challenge to Duel
More Bookmarks
User avatar
blackninja9939
Moderator
 
Posts: 5688
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:50
Location: England

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by DominusNovus » Thu Sep 14, 2017 21:42

blackninja9939 wrote:None of those Gods have been proven to exist in the lore at all. Only the magic of their worshipers and in most cases they are shown only from a single character or a set of very few (Melisandre) or be presented as a racial trait (Children of the Forest/First Man genetics).

Also with regards to using it for White Walkers, outside of sacrificing your kids what actions would you propose to gain "grace"? And outside of a peace deal what actions would you suggest for spending the "grace". As those are the only two we have from the primary lore source of Craster.


Proven to exist in that they have power. That said, the more I think about it, the more I think it might be a good way to measure just the overall level of magic in the world.

The Jade Empire system tracks the status of China (golden age, plague, civil war, famine, etc) and the policy of China (closed, open, expansionist). In this envisioning, the 'status' tracker would track the strength of magic in the world, and the 'policy' tracker would track the balance between ice and fire.

Opening it up to broadly magic, in general, allows a much wider range of actions, it seems to me, with the results almost limitless (ways to try to increase magic for almost every religion, ways to harness high levels for almost every religion, ways for the maesters or faceless men to try to reduce magic, etc.). So, take a red priest. The more powerful magic is, overall, and the more powerful fire magic is, vs. ice magic, the more capable they'll be (and this could synergize well with the societies interface, too).
DominusNovus
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 06:29

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by ngppgn » Sat Sep 16, 2017 19:23

blackninja9939 wrote:
Exakter wrote:I have ideas of what I'd do with the Wildings but I'm not sure what options the DLC will actually give.

I.E. There is a HUGE difference between whether or not the Jade Empire options will be permanently visible, or could be enabled after a trigger. An idea someone had earlier on dealt with Walkers, and Black thought it was rather unnecessary to complicate things. I definitely see where he is coming from, but not having the Walkers around... but potentially being able to influence their arrival through actions (or inactions) could prove interesting and fun from a story perspective if the options in the files are varied enough.

The system is extremely moddable, you can hide things away.

Exakter wrote:To be honest I rather doubt the DLC will come with complexity to pull off most of these ideas (given that the main CK2 developers are working on different projects). I don't know if the modders have any advanced knowledge but if not... its a wait and see proposition.

Where you getting that idea from about the main devs of CK2 not working on CK2?


I wonder.... If things (interface things) can be hidden away from the view of the player, that suddenly makes the system much more flexible and interesting.

Say for the sake of speculation that the portrait of the "emperor of China" can be hidden. Now make a "High septon" offmap where the "emperor" is a hidden immortal character and the "governor" title is the High Septon title (was it called "The most devout"? Now you have an interface with buttons and a currency for more custom and specialised interactions with the High septon.

This can be replaced with the Iron bank, the Citadel, or any other such institution.

Now, if the interface for an offmap altogether can be hidden, you could make all the ruin holdings be held by a "chinese emperor". That'd cut on the number of ruin characters, and remove some necesity from custom code for disallowing the ruins to act as a normal character, since I assume the hardcode alrady does that for the emperor.

Another one would be the faceless men, where you gain currency by being of the correct religion and giving them gifts/sacrifices and can request assassinations when you have the right amount of currency.

Or the citadel, where you could support it financially and use the currency to gain book artifacts, a better maester the next time you need one, etc.

WIth a little imagination, the system can be generalised pretty far, if moddability allows.
ngppgn
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 17:24

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by Lord_Verkos » Sun Sep 17, 2017 04:29

DominusNovus wrote:
Proven to exist in that they have power. That said, the more I think about it, the more I think it might be a good way to measure just the overall level of magic in the world.

The Jade Empire system tracks the status of China (golden age, plague, civil war, famine, etc) and the policy of China (closed, open, expansionist). In this envisioning, the 'status' tracker would track the strength of magic in the world, and the 'policy' tracker would track the balance between ice and fire.

Opening it up to broadly magic, in general, allows a much wider range of actions, it seems to me, with the results almost limitless (ways to try to increase magic for almost every religion, ways to harness high levels for almost every religion, ways for the maesters or faceless men to try to reduce magic, etc.). So, take a red priest. The more powerful magic is, overall, and the more powerful fire magic is, vs. ice magic, the more capable they'll be (and this could synergize well with the societies interface, too).


The gods have not been shown to have any power, just that there is power and magic. People may credit it to a god, but that does not make it true that the power comes from that god. I personally believe that the writing suggests otherwise for the most part. As to magical levels I don't see what factions could do besides killing/birthing dragons as that seems to be the big determining factor. I also am not sure what you mean by the balance of ice and fire. Your differentiation of magic also doesn't really fit the lore, Martin does not categorize his magic into different branches such as fire or ice.

As to the citadel, that could work as well. I realize that they are currently on the map, but I am really unsure of how effective that is. Their presence in Oldtown could just as well be represented by unique buildings for the city and/or the hospital.
Lord_Verkos
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 04:21

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Sun Sep 17, 2017 14:03

Depending on how the new feature can be adjusted and tweaked, I could definitely see it being used for the citadel instead of the setup currently in use.
User avatar
LancelotLoire
 
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 16:32

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 14:07

This feels like societies all over again :D

What tributes would you pay to the citadel and what boons would you be able to ask from them? A suggestion for an off map power needs more than just they do not have land (or in the case of the citadel much land) on the map. It needs the tributes and boons with them as to give them an actual use.
Graduate Content Designer on Project Caligula

My amazingly empty Twitter account: @blackninja9939

Posts edited in this colour were done by me for moderation.

My Sub-Mods:
Bloodlines
More Decisions
Colonise Valyiria and Challenge to Duel
More Bookmarks
User avatar
blackninja9939
Moderator
 
Posts: 5688
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:50
Location: England

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Sun Sep 17, 2017 14:38

It's more about I'm tired of that dickhead Hightower lord being able to take the citadel titles.
User avatar
LancelotLoire
 
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 16:32

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by blackninja9939 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 15:12

LancelotLoire wrote:It's more about I'm tired of that dickhead Hightower lord being able to take the citadel titles.

He what now? Pretty sure he is not meant to be able to do that, might be a parameter we can add to their title or governmnet to stop that actually
Graduate Content Designer on Project Caligula

My amazingly empty Twitter account: @blackninja9939

Posts edited in this colour were done by me for moderation.

My Sub-Mods:
Bloodlines
More Decisions
Colonise Valyiria and Challenge to Duel
More Bookmarks
User avatar
blackninja9939
Moderator
 
Posts: 5688
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:50
Location: England

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Sun Sep 17, 2017 15:45

I've had a few runs where I personally as the Iron Throne inherited the title.
User avatar
LancelotLoire
 
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 16:32

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by Lord_Verkos » Sun Sep 17, 2017 20:45

For the Citadel in how to accumulate grace I would recommend the following: Giving money as just a donation, Sending someone to send as an acolyte (more grace if they are family member), and Donating an a book or other artifacts.
For spending the grace I would suggest: Receive help for combating sickness (modifier lowering disease), receive a book artifact, get extra training for your maester (increase their skills), have the citadel compose a family history for a boost to prestige.
For the Iron Bank I am not sure if it would be able to allow the reverse, getting boons and then paying them off with grace. Either way I would suggest the following tributes: Debt payment (just gold donation), send artifact (crowns and such), and send envoy (can be you, vassal, court member to visit the bank more grace for higher rank, they eventually come back). To spend I would say just a general loan (gift of money), castle enlargement loan (Builds the improve castle), money for a tourney (starts a realm wide tourney regardless of 10 year limit), and funding for war (gives income during a war). If it can be reversed where boons can be recieved first I would limit the negative grace allowed based on rank and on standing with the iron bank.
Lord_Verkos
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 04:21

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by DominusNovus » Sun Sep 17, 2017 23:17

Lord_Verkos wrote:As to magical levels I don't see what factions could do besides killing/birthing dragons as that seems to be the big determining factor. I also am not sure what you mean by the balance of ice and fire. Your differentiation of magic also doesn't really fit the lore, Martin does not categorize his magic into different branches such as fire or ice.


I have to disagree. It might not be that there's specific schools of magic, like in a high fantasy novel, but there are certainly different strains, for lack of a better word. First of all, lets remember the title of the series, "A Song of Ice and Fire." Second, it is implied that dragons are a manifestation of Fire ("fire made flesh"), while the Others are a manifestation of Ice ("demons made of ice"). Both are clearly magical, and both seem to depend on/feed into the strength of magic (at bare minimum, there is a correlation between them and magic). However, they are not in perfect balance. There is no direct one-to-one relationship between Others and dragons. There were centuries where there were dragons (and, given the lifespan of the Valyrian Freehold, likely hundreds of dragons) around, but no real mention of the Others. In recent times, it seems that the Others have been around for a few decades, even if they haven't been up to much, but, yet, there were no dragons until Dany woke them.

I don't think we'll ever get a 'word of god' from GRRM explaining the mechanics of magic in his world, but in my readings, I've long gotten the vibe of a 'ying and yang' dualism between Ice and Fire, with the two forces trying to balance each other out.
DominusNovus
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 06:29

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by Lord_Verkos » Sun Sep 17, 2017 23:47

Yes, the Dragons and Others do seem to be opposites, but it is not presented that as one gets stronger the other weakens. I would argue that since the comet and the birth of the dragon they both have been getting stonger so the suggestion of which is dominating does not make sense. Also, what about the other magical abilities such as warging or greensight. They appear unconnected to either as Jojen had his dreams long before the dragons, and if Bloodraven did use the warging to help spy when he was Hand, then they have been active during the period without dragons or others. I am not denying that overall there is a yin-yang nature to them, but they and magic in general are not clearly defined to separate them as you described.
Lord_Verkos
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 04:21

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Mon Sep 18, 2017 00:12

That comet isn't really a good indicator though, it showed up in 280AC as well which means it shows up about every 19-20 years.
User avatar
LancelotLoire
 
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 16:32

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by Exakter » Mon Sep 18, 2017 00:47

yeah the comet to me just indicates that the smallfolk (and the superstitious) believe in such events and their connections.

As to what we could do with the features for the mod...

I imagine there is a lot we could do, but since I personally don't know exactly what mechanics/options are available to mess with I am reluctant to develop any ideas yet.

I really would just like to re-emphasize how much I feel that the White Walkers AND beyond the wall need an edit. Maybe even the Night's Watch (though frankly I find it hard to imagine its easy to make them a real playable-friendly faction).

I really love what you guys did with the Horse-lords and Dothraki. It made them feel really unique. I love playing as different cultures in this game and having the experience be completely different.

I.e. A dothraki game is NEVER like a westerosi game, which is similar but not the same as an ironborn game, which is similar but not the same as a corsair playthrough, which is itself nothing like playing as a republic.
Exakter
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 04:15

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by Lord_Verkos » Mon Sep 18, 2017 02:29

LancelotLoire wrote:That comet isn't really a good indicator though, it showed up in 280AC as well which means it shows up about every 19-20 years.


I did not know that. The only comet I was aware of was the Red Comet seen in the books. Where was the 280AC one mentioned? I can only find the one on the wiki.
Lord_Verkos
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 04:21

Re: What will Jade Dragon mean for this mod

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Mon Sep 18, 2017 02:40

Aegon, the son of Rhaegar was conceived on the night of the comet. It was why Rhaegar believed that Aegon was the prince that was promised.
User avatar
LancelotLoire
 
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 16:32

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests