Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Brume » Thu Sep 07, 2017 14:49

There is no polygamy involved in Jon Targaryen. A septon divorced Raegar before re-marry him with Lyanna Stark. At least according to the show, so Jon is the true heir of house Targaryen.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by StoneWallace17 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 19:03

The show isn't canon to the books or this mod.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Brume » Thu Sep 07, 2017 21:01

Yes it is.. Book come first, but book isnt that far yet so until they come up with something, Jon is true heir.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Thu Sep 07, 2017 22:37

Enough of the argument guys. The show is not canon only the books are. The mod is willing to use some stuff from the tv show when it doesn't contradict book canon.

The time is frozen to the end of AFFC until the next books come out in 30 years.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by EDAP » Thu Sep 07, 2017 23:49

More importantly, even if he was legitimate rather than a bastard he would not be the rightful heir, only a claimant to the throne. The Targaryen's all have a claim to the throne, but the Royal line became Baratheon after the Rebellion (lets ignore that all the Baratheons + Cersei's kids are dead) and thus Jon is not the heir.
Here is a link to my personal list of FAQs. Please check there to see if it answers you question. The specific details aren't up to date, and I probably won't update it for a while, but the general ideas are unchanged.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Exakter » Fri Sep 08, 2017 23:40

I think the mod already handles this subject perfectly. Anything else people want they should just edit it themselves.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by nicka86 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 21:19

The Faceless wrote:Wolffyre, Whitefyre(his wolf's color, white wolf)
And he may get The White Dragon nickname.

I think Whitefyre is pretty cool.

Whitefyre.. I like it, a cadet house like the Blackfyre dynasty. Let the roleplaying begin :)
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by nicka86 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 21:30

StoneWallace17 wrote:I personally modded mine so that Stark-Targaryen is replaced with a second Stark dynasty that uses the Whitewolf CoA. Seems most like what Jon would do, IMO.

Although I tried to just add it as an extra option but it didn't seem to be working.


How did you implement that? and does it replace the main CoA that currently is displayed as king? (Stark-Targaryen)
If so, do you mind sharing? :) :)

I changed the CoA using house customizer, but the Stark-Targaryen is still displayed as the main CoA, my own is only displayed in the character window
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Otama » Tue Sep 12, 2017 22:52

You could do it by accepting Stannis' offer, then adding house customizer, finding Sansa and selecting her, then have yourself be a bastard branch. Select Whitewolf, use console to remove the newly added bastard trait and then rename Whitewolf to Stark. I think it's a good option to have Jon be able to go Targaryen or Stark-Targaryen (second name isn't that weird, double-barreled surnames aren't that odd for noble families), but I agree, I kind of doubt Jon would want to have any claim to the Targaryen name. He was raised a Stark.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by StoneWallace17 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 23:11

nicka86 wrote:
StoneWallace17 wrote:I personally modded mine so that Stark-Targaryen is replaced with a second Stark dynasty that uses the Whitewolf CoA. Seems most like what Jon would do, IMO.

Although I tried to just add it as an extra option but it didn't seem to be working.


How did you implement that? and does it replace the main CoA that currently is displayed as king? (Stark-Targaryen)
If so, do you mind sharing? :) :)

I changed the CoA using house customizer, but the Stark-Targaryen is still displayed as the main CoA, my own is only displayed in the character window

Oh, what all did I do... I think the working version, I went in the dynasties files (common/dynasties/northman.txt), and replaced the CoA info with the lines for the Whitewolf cadet dynasty (found in same folder but cadet_dynasty.txt) and dropped the -Targaryen in the name. And then to get the Dynamic CoA working I had to go open common/scripted_effects/dynamic_coa_effects.txt then find and copy the Whitewolf line and change the dynasty ID.

I think those are the only changes I made to get it working. Although now that I'm looking at the files, I need to figure out how the new House Words system is implemented so I can still have Winter is Coming used for the new Stark dynasty.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Corvo the Crow » Thu Sep 14, 2017 19:17

Longclaw. Previous cadet house with followers enough to be a threat to the main dynasty named themselves after the valyrian sword they are given, in the case of Jon it'd be Longclaw. That is for a Targaryen cadet of course. If you want him to act as a Stark cadet then we have two examples, one adding the name of the founder of the Cadets and the other a color. That'd be Jonstarks or maybe Bluestarks(for blue roses). Maybe Longstarks or Jonclaw to combnine both :lol: I simply name him Crowlord.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Joron Corbie » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:06

Lancet I'm not sure which real life conventions you are talking about, here in Scandinavia we usually get our mothers surname before our fathers in those cases where we use both. The surname from the mother usually counts as a middle name here whereas our fathers name becomes our surname. I myself have the names of both my parents and my mothers surname is therefore registered as one of my middle names (I'm so lucky I get to have two of those :P) If you look worldwide though there are many different naming conventions and even quite a few cultures where you don't even use a surname. I'm not sure which conventions mr.Martin went with but it seems to be follwing a patronymic pattern where it is the name of the father which decides the name of the kids. (E.g the Stark kids are Starks, not Tully-Stark or Stark-Tully)

Also in regard to Corvo's reply, there is no set convention about Targaryen bastards naming themselves after the sword, there is only one case of that which are the Blackfyres whom descend from a single person who took that name.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:53

@Joron Corbie: I was going off the Spanish/Portuguese speaking parts of the world. In terms of populations that's like 600 million people that speak/live in Spanish/Portuguese countries compared to like 30 million in the Scandinavian countries. There also isn't much of Eddardson or Catelyndottir going on so I figured it wasn't using Scandinavian naming conventions lol. Although they aren't the only world culture with that style of naming. The Gaelic "Mac" means son of as well. Apparently Ethiopia and Eritrea naming convention has no surname whatsoever. People are known by their personal name, father name and grandfather name. So Robb Stark would be known as Robb Eddard Rickard.

Your last point to Corvo, I'm going to point at house Baratheon.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Otama » Sun Sep 17, 2017 13:01

Double-barreled surnames usually happen when two houses come together and they want both houses to be honored. This usually happens in the case of Kings and Queens, see Joffrey considering himself to be of Houses Lannister and Baratheon. Both great houses are honored and his cadet branch would probably become known as Lannister-Baratheon, or something like that, if it had continued to exist. It's very possible for Jon to want to do this, as he was raised a Stark but if he also wants to take the throne if he sees it as his duty, then I can imagine he'd go for something like Stark-Targaryen to honor both the House that raised him as well as the House he must pick up out of duty.

Ned and Cat's kids don't get a name like that because Ned wasn't a King and House Tully and the Riverlands in general aren't as prominent as the Baratheons and Lannisters, though if Edmure had died before Robb, I could imagine Robb also taking up the 'of Houses Tully and Stark' thing to continue to claim the Riverlands, who were fighting for him.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Exakter » Mon Sep 18, 2017 00:49

... Joffrey was incredibly proud of his Baratheon heritage and basically dismissed his Lannister heritage (in fact was very against it being emphasized because he felt it reinforced "those ugly rumors"). Imagining him as anything BUT a Baratheon (in his mind) is absurd.
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Lord_Verkos » Mon Sep 18, 2017 02:50

Exakter wrote:... Joffrey was incredibly proud of his Baratheon heritage and basically dismissed his Lannister heritage (in fact was very against it being emphasized because he felt it reinforced "those ugly rumors"). Imagining him as anything BUT a Baratheon (in his mind) is absurd.

How did he dismiss his Lannister heritage? His personal arms were a combination of both, which he maintained after the rumors began. Also, in the Battle of the Blackwater he was dressed in the Lannister colors with a lion helm. He hates the rumors yes, but I see nothing from the books that suggests he distances himself from the Lannister legacy.

For last names I would suggest just Targaryen, but have the coat-of-arms change to either the quartered crest, or mod it so that it is a grey dragon on white. That seems to fit the internal lore best. However if you want a different name I agree Whitefyre works well, or any play on it like Snowfyre, Northfyre, Nightfyre (a reference to his time in the watch), or Greyfyre (Stark color).
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Corvo the Crow » Mon Sep 18, 2017 18:14

Joron Corbie wrote:
Also in regard to Corvo's reply, there is no set convention about Targaryen bastards naming themselves after the sword, there is only one case of that which are the Blackfyres whom descend from a single person who took that name.


That's not what I suggested. I just said the only cadet we know to have gathered enough power to pose a threat was named after their Valyrian sword in the case of Targaryens. I didn't count the Baratheons because we do not know for sure whether Orys is just a friend or a bastard brother. If he was brother to Aegon, wouldn't they married him to one of his sisters, whether he was a bastard or not?
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Re: Suggestions for Jon Snows dynasty name

PostPosted by Exakter » Mon Sep 18, 2017 22:08

Lord_Verkos wrote:
Exakter wrote:... Joffrey was incredibly proud of his Baratheon heritage and basically dismissed his Lannister heritage (in fact was very against it being emphasized because he felt it reinforced "those ugly rumors"). Imagining him as anything BUT a Baratheon (in his mind) is absurd.

How did he dismiss his Lannister heritage? His personal arms were a combination of both, which he maintained after the rumors began. Also, in the Battle of the Blackwater he was dressed in the Lannister colors with a lion helm. He hates the rumors yes, but I see nothing from the books that suggests he distances himself from the Lannister legacy.

For last names I would suggest just Targaryen, but have the coat-of-arms change to either the quartered crest, or mod it so that it is a grey dragon on white. That seems to fit the internal lore best. However if you want a different name I agree Whitefyre works well, or any play on it like Snowfyre, Northfyre, Nightfyre (a reference to his time in the watch), or Greyfyre (Stark color).



That's Cersei's influence. Any time he compares Baratheon to Lannister and the Lannister's come up short. He dismissed Tywin, and his legacy very easily.
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