1.5 Defensive coalition event firing for minor wars

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1.5 Defensive coalition event firing for minor wars

PostPosted by tirion1987 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 18:02

I've spent some time testing and noticed a few interesting things. I even looked it up in the mod files, but with more than half of that event being commented out from diplomatic_events.txt, seemingly without rhyme or reason, I can only guess at the original intent behind it - if I understand correctly some of this event has been moved to the CBs themselves recently. Please enlighten me if I'm mistaken in any of the following.

In lore we had 4 prominent examples of coalitions. 1 of those was against the Others 8000 years ago, let's speak of it no more. Then there was The Reach and The Rock uniting to be incinerated together by Aegon the Conqueror on the Field of Fire. Finally, there is the Slaver Coalition of all Slaver's Bay and Qarth (IIRC technically just Daxos) opposing Daenerys - though some might argue that it's an offensive coalition. We might also count Lys, Myr, Tyrosh and Dragonstone wrecking New Valyria. All these were large scale wars with the invasion of whole kingdoms as an existencial threat to unite the defenders.

Then there are those wars that didn't get a coalition cockblocking them, even though they should have. Yes, I am looking at the Dothraki :twisted:

The mod file, as I understand it, is more or less in line with this: Dragon Conquest, Scourge, Enslavement, Liberation and all sort of invasions, including tribal, pirate and dothraki, can trigger a coalition. There is a nebulous statement that republics and theocracies can call coalitions for other CBs, but even for those there is a list that they can't call a coalition for, such as raids, trade post wars, embargoes and de jure claims.

I have two problems related to the above. First, some of the above are arguably not as they should be for immersion purposes. Second and worse, some ingame behavior contradicts what seems to be intended in the file.

First group: the Free Cities are all Republics and a Theocracy, and all but one of them have the same culture group (Essosi). That means everything NOT on the "not even for them" list can, and usually does trigger a coalition. This includes Emancipation, county/duchy claim wars, and republic sieze city and sieze county wars. We know little about the republic wars in canon, but for the first two types we have plenty of examples against coalitions and none for them. Braavos fought half a dozen wars with Pentos to emancipate it, and the other Free Cities haven't intervened as long as the Braavosi didn't straight up annex Pentos. Lys, Tyrosh, Myr and Volantis have fought over parts of the Disputed Lands for centuries in many variations, but none of them involved other realms and they were explicitly small scale wars and skirmishes, like county/duchy claims ingame. In the game, pressing a single county claim on Lorath brought 5 Free Cities against me, and trying to Emancipate Norvos earned the wrath of 2 more and the Greatest of Khals of the Dothraki. :cry: Count and duke tier NPCs are also regularly slapped down by all the Free Cities for trying to press a fabricated claim on the OPM Myrish republic in k_rhoynar. Then there is Wildlings invading each other and occasionally running into coalitions of every other Wildling.

Second group: I've been called into coalitions by successful peasant leaders when the Free City they once defeated pressed a de jure claim on them. They were even the same culture as their attacker. From what I see in the files this should explicitly NOT happen.
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Re: 1.5 Defensive coalition event firing for minor wars

PostPosted by knuckey » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:03

This all pretty much WAD. Any ruler can use defensive coalitions for major CBs. Republics and theocracies can use them for most CBs, only excluding minor CBs.
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Re: 1.5 Defensive coalition event firing for minor wars

PostPosted by tirion1987 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:34

knuckey wrote:This all pretty much WAD. Any ruler can use defensive coalitions for major CBs. Republics and theocracies can use them for most CBs, only excluding minor CBs.

Well, thank you for the reply at least. But how about the second part, where de jure CBs are among the minor CBs as defined by the event file, yet the coalitions still fire for them? Also, how is sieze city NOT a minor CB?

And I realize how hard it can be to script, but could you please do something to tone down the number of people who can join a coalition? In lore they were always just neighbours or at least within vanilla holy war distance, with the single exception of Qarth joining the Slaver Coalition. IMHO more than 2 Free Cities jumping in to defend against a minor CB is quite imbalanced.
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