Trial by combat among relatives is too harsh and uncompromising

Report any problems with the mod here

Trial by combat among relatives is too harsh and uncompromising

PostPosted by imp » Sat Sep 23, 2017 04:04

I started as Martell bastard (custom character) and took Dorne from my half-sister, she demanded trial by combat and named my eldest son as her champion, I killed my son getting kin-slayer trait.

Why I think it is a bug or rather a flaw?
Because the half-sister is a landed character, so she should pick her courtiers or her vassals as champion.
And my son was at my court and had opinion of me +38.
So the problem is that he is my heir, we have good relations, and we either fight each other and one of us die anyway, or he fight another guy (and either die or I lose the captive), or I lose prestige denying trial—this is very frustrating, and kinda does not make sense (it would make sense if he hated my guts but he didn’t), plus my combat skill is over 20 so even if he likes the aunt so much to stand for her, it is basically suicide, and thus makes even less sense.

At the very least, there should be an option to spare the opponent (at least kin or at least own child), perhaps in exchange of small amount of prestige and/or piety like 25 each (instead of losing 100 prestige denying trial).
Now, some may say that there are no examples of sparing in lore, but there is no any example of relatives (who are not hate each other) fighting to the death for such insignificant reason either.
imp
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 18:12

Re: Trial by combat among relatives is too harsh and uncompromising

PostPosted by imp » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:19

Any thoughts, guys?

I’ve tried to change the way champion being selected, or the way character decides to accept; but it seems too complicated for me.
So I’ve decreased the chance of killing blow for a child in duel.7 event like this:
Code: Select all
         modifier = {
            factor = 0.5
            OR = {
               event_target:duel_round_winner = {
                  is_child_of = event_target:duel_round_loser
               }
               event_target:duel_round_loser = {
                  is_child_of = event_target:duel_round_winner
               }
            }
         }

works fine, but if I refuse his surrender it does not add kin-slayer trait to my character.

Savegame for testing https://www.dropbox.com/s/tiu4b3inj70xn ... l.ck2?dl=1
imp
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 18:12

Re: Trial by combat among relatives is too harsh and uncompromising

PostPosted by Tiranasta » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:27

imp wrote:Now, some may say that there are no examples of sparing in lore

Actually there is. Lyonel Baratheon yielded to Ser Duncan the Tall in his trial by combat. To my knowledge, no one seemed to consider this scandalous or even unusual.
Tiranasta
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 14:05

Re: Trial by combat among relatives is too harsh and uncompromising

PostPosted by imp » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:34

No, Lyonel Baratheon was not an elected champion, he stood for himself and thus forfeit his independence;
I mean it is an example of surrender, but weak and questionable.
imp
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 18:12

Re: Trial by combat among relatives is too harsh and uncompromising

PostPosted by Fashbinder » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:55

I had a similar situation with a kinsman choosing a close relative of mine as champion that i didnt want to kill but had to.

Should add allow friends/kin to live in duels.
User avatar
Fashbinder
Mod Team
 
Posts: 1599
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 07:05

Re: Trial by combat among relatives is too harsh and uncompromising

PostPosted by tirion1987 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 14:05

Even in live combat highborn people are often asked to yield, and they often accept. There should be a higher chance of a wounded or hopelessly outclassed character to do that in a trial by combat IMHO. The two we witness in the series are pretty far from the norm: Bronn has the Ruthless trait and the Mountain is the Mountain.
tirion1987
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 23:58

Re: Trial by combat among relatives is too harsh and uncompromising

PostPosted by imp » Mon Oct 02, 2017 14:53

tirion1987 wrote:The two we witness in the series are pretty far from the norm: Bronn has the Ruthless trait and the Mountain is the Mountain.

There are many more examples in lore, all (but one) resulted with at least one death.
However, kins and friends involvement is very unusual; besides, ruthless trait and some others are already affect the chance of a killing blow; and the chance to kill an unwounded character is pretty high, i.e. it probably won’t help if you increase the yield chance for a wounded participant.
imp
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 18:12


Return to Bug Reports

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests