Vengeance for raiding cb against the ironborn too op.

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Vengeance for raiding cb against the ironborn too op.

PostPosted by kaxa80 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:49

So i can understand the line of though here, but in practice gaining a cb to attack the king/LP of the iron isles just based on the fact that you got raided results in a disproportional amount of wars against the ironborn. This obviously stems from the fact that most independent realms in game don't really have a lot of cbs to go on (especially when playing with the fabrication turned off), so practically in all scinarios when the isles are/manage to become independent they just end up having to fight off infinite wave of invaders with no chance off success(because if they fight of 1 foe they just immediately or simultaneously get attacked by someone else) this obviously results in the isles being perm weakened which isn't really canon friendly you'll have to agree (lorewise we only have 2 precedents of the isles being invaded right?)

Suggestion: either make the availability of the vengeance cb A LOT more scarce or remove it altogether.
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Re: Vengeance for raiding cb against the ironborn too op.

PostPosted by Valor1 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 22:21

It should be removed,because there is a reason the Isles were never invaded,The Iron Fleet.It was the biggest and strongest fleet at the time and only a combined might of the seven kingdoms could challange it so I don't think any of the earlier kingdoms stood a chance against the Iron Fleet which is the reason they got away with raiding and not being invaded.
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Re: Vengeance for raiding cb against the ironborn too op.

PostPosted by Kripox » Sat Oct 14, 2017 00:31

Valor1 wrote:It should be removed,because there is a reason the Isles were never invaded,The Iron Fleet.It was the biggest and strongest fleet at the time and only a combined might of the seven kingdoms could challange it so I don't think any of the earlier kingdoms stood a chance against the Iron Fleet which is the reason they got away with raiding and not being invaded.


This is straight up not true, the Islands have been invaded at least twice other than Aegon and Robert's invasions. Once was during the dance of the dragons. The ironborn began conquering land along the western coast and burned the lannister fleet at anchor, but the lannisters allied with the Reach and using the reach fleet they invaded the Iron Islands. To be fair their invasion was probablu successful mosty because the ironborn were infighting and it wasnt the most devastating campaign anyway, but long before Aegon's time there wa another war between the Iron Islands and the Westerlands. The war lasted for 7 years, dduring which the westermen invded the islands, defeated the ironborn and devatated their lands. Invading the islands is neither common nor easy, but it can be done without needing the whole of westeros to unite.
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Re: Vengeance for raiding cb against the ironborn too op.

PostPosted by PallyWC » Sat Oct 14, 2017 04:37

and this is why the Stormlands are important.....Stannis raped the Iron Fleet
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Se ... _Fair_Isle
and the Stormlands don't have tiny boats/longships they have straight warships...
example...Fury Stannis' flagship is a 3 deck war galley....with 300 oars...


also is this invasion has not been mentioned....during the Andal invasion the entirity of the Iron Islands were conquered by the invading Andals.....but alas it seems living in Iron Islands makes you respect the sea...and once you respect it the Drowned Men are just waiting for ritualistic drownings to get rolling...

the long story short is the Iron Islanders ships...even those of the iron fleet....are longships...built for raiding and speed...in the case of the iron fleet they have been fitted with some anti-ship weaponry like scorpions and balllista..
The ships of the mainland....are mostly dromonds and multi-deck warships...all of which are fitted with anti-ship weaponry...but are significantly larger and thus slower than the Ironborn...in a direct engagement the Ironborn/IronFleet tend to get smashed if they cannot utilize their speed (ie stuck in a bay or channel, or severe weather) straightup fight wise I tend to think the Ironfleet would just speed away and let the enemy chase in the hopes they would eventually get so tired they could be easily slaughtered/led into a poor tactical position (ie Nappy chasing Wellington to Waterloo)
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Re: Vengeance for raiding cb against the ironborn too op.

PostPosted by kaxa80 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 07:34

Sure there were a few successful invasions but the current setup makes it seem like raping the isles was an annual tradition of all its neighbors, it's just way too frequent.
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Re: Vengeance for raiding cb against the ironborn too op.

PostPosted by Valor1 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 17:12

Kripox wrote:
Valor1 wrote:It should be removed,because there is a reason the Isles were never invaded,The Iron Fleet.It was the biggest and strongest fleet at the time and only a combined might of the seven kingdoms could challange it so I don't think any of the earlier kingdoms stood a chance against the Iron Fleet which is the reason they got away with raiding and not being invaded.


This is straight up not true, the Islands have been invaded at least twice other than Aegon and Robert's invasions. Once was during the dance of the dragons. The ironborn began conquering land along the western coast and burned the lannister fleet at anchor, but the lannisters allied with the Reach and using the reach fleet they invaded the Iron Islands. To be fair their invasion was probablu successful mosty because the ironborn were infighting and it wasnt the most devastating campaign anyway, but long before Aegon's time there wa another war between the Iron Islands and the Westerlands. The war lasted for 7 years, dduring which the westermen invded the islands, defeated the ironborn and devatated their lands. Invading the islands is neither common nor easy, but it can be done without needing the whole of westeros to unite.


Thats 4 known ocassions of semi-invasions and succesfull invasion.Don't u think if it was common to invade the Iron Isles they would have been invaded A LOT more due to the fact that they pillaged and looted Westeros for hundreds of years with pretty much no consiquences?
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Re: Vengeance for raiding cb against the ironborn too op.

PostPosted by PallyWC » Sun Oct 15, 2017 03:02

Valor1 wrote:
Kripox wrote:
Valor1 wrote:It should be removed,because there is a reason the Isles were never invaded,The Iron Fleet.It was the biggest and strongest fleet at the time and only a combined might of the seven kingdoms could challange it so I don't think any of the earlier kingdoms stood a chance against the Iron Fleet which is the reason they got away with raiding and not being invaded.


This is straight up not true, the Islands have been invaded at least twice other than Aegon and Robert's invasions. Once was during the dance of the dragons. The ironborn began conquering land along the western coast and burned the lannister fleet at anchor, but the lannisters allied with the Reach and using the reach fleet they invaded the Iron Islands. To be fair their invasion was probablu successful mosty because the ironborn were infighting and it wasnt the most devastating campaign anyway, but long before Aegon's time there wa another war between the Iron Islands and the Westerlands. The war lasted for 7 years, dduring which the westermen invded the islands, defeated the ironborn and devatated their lands. Invading the islands is neither common nor easy, but it can be done without needing the whole of westeros to unite.


Thats 4 known ocassions of semi-invasions and succesfull invasion.Don't u think if it was common to invade the Iron Isles they would have been invaded A LOT more due to the fact that they pillaged and looted Westeros for hundreds of years with pretty much no consiquences?



this is the entire reason they spent 300 years trying to conquer the riverlands and built harrenhal...
the Hoare's knew they would get smoked if they only controlled the Iron Islands....so they expanded and tried to lock down the occcupation with Harrenhal.....then Aegon landed and undid centuries of work in about a month....

Greyjoys are pussies so in the 300 years since Aegon's landing the Iron Islands have done nothing...not one damn thing....How/Why they didnt annex Tyrosh and Lys during the fallout of the Blackfyre's mystifies me....(cause I instantly go for Tyrosh as an Ironborn)
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