Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

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Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by Hapchazzard » Sat Oct 07, 2017 23:13

Okay, started playing as Aegon the Conquerer and managed to unite Westeros and the Free Cities under the IT. It is the year 60 now, however, and the game has become strange.

So I'm having a relatively peaceful and stable rule under my brutal, yet fair ruler. Suddenly I get a notification that an adventurer is amassing an army in Slaver's Bay and preparing to invade the realm. Already I'm baffled - the only significant pretender that I've had was my ambitious niece, who I've already had blinded and thrown into prison some time ago. I look at the info on this adventurer and... am left baffled, honestly. Apparently, this "Valarr" fellow has a weak claim on the IT, despite having no connection to it whatsoever. He's a lowborn, but well-educated and brave architect. I immediately dismiss the guy as a moron for deciding to try and take my throne, until I realize that he has a dragon. Balerion, to be exact.

You see, I don't keep my dragons in the pit, since that slows their growth and lowers their life expectancy. I just let them hang around Dragonstone. Apparently, though, that gives everyone and their mother who is in the province the (pretty good) chance to tame and steal their dragon (seriously, I don't think that should be a thing). This Valarr did that with Balerion, and that also gave him a weak claim on the IT, apparently. So there's that.

He quickly crosses the Demon Road and starts setting fire to the Free Cities. First he sacks Volantis, and then heads westward towards Myr, razing anything unlucky enough to be in his way. I gather an army from the Crownlands, cross the Narrow Sea and team up with the Myrish army, bringing our numbers together to around 20K, while Valarr's army is 10K. I put myself as the leading commander and dragon riders on both of my flanks. The problem, however, is that all of us have fairly young and crappy 20 martial dragons, and Balerion has over 100. We met the pretender on a field northeast of Myr, and a dance begins.

We get massacred.

All 3 commanders, including my king, are killed in the ensuing dance. Balerion isn't even wounded. So, my new, intrigue-educated king ascends the throne. And as he has an even worse dragon than the previous king, decides to let Valarr set fire to the Free Cities and just ignore him, while spying on him in order to try and assassinate or, even better, kidnap him. This goes on for some time, until the bastard crosses the Narrow Sea and lays siege to King's Landing. At this point I know I'm in some deep trouble, and I'm ready to just pay a Faceless man to take this cretin out, no matter if it bankrupts me.

Then another notification. Another pretender. The second guy's called "Valarr" as well, but unlike the first one, he's a noble, a Sunglass. Thankfully, he has no dragon and got his claim through some marriage ties, so I breathe a sigh of relief that at least this guy won't be a significant threat.

And then it came.

Another pretender. Not even a month has passed.

This time it is a lowborn woman from Volantis. And... she's riding Vhagar (85 martial) to battle. Brilliant. At that point I take a break from the game, and here we are.

Honestly, while this has made for a fairly interesting story, I can't help but feel frustrated. I don't think stuff like this was intended. There are several problems with the game itself that led to this frankly ridiculous situation.

1. Every random courtier being able to tame and steal a dragon
2. Said random courtier getting a claim on the IT, even though they're a lowborn nobody
3. Not being able to set a dragon aside. Seriously. If my heir tamed some 5 martial dragon, I'm stuck with it until either the dragon or my heir dies.

The mod is really good, I don't even play vanilla CK2 anymore. But stuff like this honestly makes me less likely to play a bookmark with dragons, since they're so powerful, yet also so shoddy in terms of ownership, allowing random nobodies to overthrow the king of the IT just because they lucked out on a RNG roll.
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by MagnusMaximus » Sat Oct 07, 2017 23:51

if you dont want them to get tamed by randos build a dragonpit. btw everyone with a dragon gets a claim on new valyria/ iron throne
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by Toccs » Sun Oct 08, 2017 00:25

Hapchazzard wrote:1. Every random courtier being able to tame and steal a dragon


Locking them in the pit will prevent this. You're letting them roam free so to try and get more growth, but the risk you take in doing that is that someone else might tame it.

Hapchazzard wrote:2. Said random courtier getting a claim on the IT, even though they're a lowborn nobody


That's the dragon rider adventurer mechanic. It lets dragon riders who meet the criteria start adventurer hosts and try to conquer titles. It's like what Emperor Aurion, Aegon the Conquerer and Daemon the Rogue Prince among others did in the lore. Turning adventurers off in the game rules will prevent it from happening.

Really, you should have had him killed the moment you first heard about him in Slaver's Bay before he had a chance to do anything.

Hapchazzard wrote:3. Not being able to set a dragon aside. Seriously. If my heir tamed some 5 martial dragon, I'm stuck with it until either the dragon or my heir dies.


That's not how it works in the lore. Being able to ditch your dragon everytime a better one becomes riderless is so gamey and un-lore friendly that really you might as well just use the console to achieve it if that is what you want.
Smart and dumb are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Stark is born the gods flip a coin . . . and it always seems to land on dumb.
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by Hapchazzard » Sun Oct 08, 2017 00:42

Toccs wrote:Locking them in the pit will prevent this. You're letting them roam free so to try and get more growth, but the risk you take in doing that is that someone else might tame it.


I'll definitely do this from now on, I guess I've learned it the hard way, lol. However, even if I lock my own dragon in the pit, there is no way to lock my relatives' dragons as well, so there is a huge chance that I'll lose their dragons anyway. Or am I incorrect and I'm actually able to put relatives' dragons in the pit as well?

Toccs wrote:That's the dragon rider adventurer mechanic. It lets dragon riders who meet the criteria start adventurer hosts and try to conquer titles. It's like what Emperor Aurion, Aegon the Conquerer and Daemon the Rogue Prince among others did in the lore. Turning adventurers off in the game rules will prevent it from happening.


That makes sense. I'll keep it in mind from now on.

Toccs wrote:Really, you should have had him killed the moment you first heard about him in Slaver's Bay before he had a chance to do anything.


At that time I had no idea just how much damage he could do. As I said, I've learned it the hard way.

Toccs wrote:That's not how it works in the lore. Being able to ditch your dragon everytime a better one becomes riderless is so gamey and un-lore friendly that really you might as well just use the console to achieve it if that is what you want.


You have a point. I'm only kind of annoyed that my heir always seems to tame the youngest dragon for whatever reason, when there's a bunch of vastly better choices in the same province.

Thanks for your response!
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by PallyWC » Sun Oct 08, 2017 04:16

I feels your pain.....as does the person who created the dragontamer laws submod....
beware tho....it doesnt like other mods (particularly if like Dragons of the East they have their own version of Dragontamer laws built in)
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by suvantar » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:25

Toccs wrote:
Hapchazzard wrote:3. Not being able to set a dragon aside. Seriously. If my heir tamed some 5 martial dragon, I'm stuck with it until either the dragon or my heir dies.


That's not how it works in the lore. Being able to ditch your dragon everytime a better one becomes riderless is so gamey and un-lore friendly that really you might as well just use the console to achieve it if that is what you want.


Actually, there's a pretty obvious lore example for this, including this very dragon. This is exactly what Maegor the Cruel did.

"Despite the fact that there were several dragon hatchlings on Dragonstone, Maegor had not yet claimed a dragon of his own, claiming that none were worthy. After Aegon I's death, Maegor claimed his father's mount, Balerion, for his own. During the first year of Aenys's reign, several rebellions broke out. In the Vale of Arryn, "

He wasn't able to ditch his dragon, but if you put it in game terms, he was able to put off claiming one until the one he wanted happened to become available. In fact, this sort of makes sense to me in games where there are lots of dragons. I suspect that the people on the Iron Throne would have sort of a home field advantage in claiming the best of those available for their own.
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by Godofmosquitos » Mon Oct 09, 2017 14:26

Just to be certain here - once I have tamed a dragon, it cannot be stolen by someone else, right?
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by ave369 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 20:05

Once the dragon is yours, it's yours until you die or the dragon dies. But after you die, if none of your successors tames the dragon, it can be stolen.
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by MagnusMaximus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 21:04

suvantar wrote:
Toccs wrote:
Hapchazzard wrote:3. Not being able to set a dragon aside. Seriously. If my heir tamed some 5 martial dragon, I'm stuck with it until either the dragon or my heir dies.


That's not how it works in the lore. Being able to ditch your dragon everytime a better one becomes riderless is so gamey and un-lore friendly that really you might as well just use the console to achieve it if that is what you want.


Actually, there's a pretty obvious lore example for this, including this very dragon. This is exactly what Maegor the Cruel did.

"Despite the fact that there were several dragon hatchlings on Dragonstone, Maegor had not yet claimed a dragon of his own, claiming that none were worthy. After Aegon I's death, Maegor claimed his father's mount, Balerion, for his own. During the first year of Aenys's reign, several rebellions broke out. In the Vale of Arryn, "

He wasn't able to ditch his dragon, but if you put it in game terms, he was able to put off claiming one until the one he wanted happened to become available. In fact, this sort of makes sense to me in games where there are lots of dragons. I suspect that the people on the Iron Throne would have sort of a home field advantage in claiming the best of those available for their own.

Thing is he never rode a dragon before Balerion. So that can be represented by just waiting till ur daddy dies and then taming his dragon.
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by reg » Mon Oct 09, 2017 23:34

Doesn´t the dragon suppose to share a deep connection with its rider in the lore ?, only riderless dragons should be available for taming by random courtiers.
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by knuckey » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:32

suvantar wrote:
Toccs wrote:
Hapchazzard wrote:3. Not being able to set a dragon aside. Seriously. If my heir tamed some 5 martial dragon, I'm stuck with it until either the dragon or my heir dies.


That's not how it works in the lore. Being able to ditch your dragon everytime a better one becomes riderless is so gamey and un-lore friendly that really you might as well just use the console to achieve it if that is what you want.


Actually, there's a pretty obvious lore example for this, including this very dragon. This is exactly what Maegor the Cruel did.

"Despite the fact that there were several dragon hatchlings on Dragonstone, Maegor had not yet claimed a dragon of his own, claiming that none were worthy. After Aegon I's death, Maegor claimed his father's mount, Balerion, for his own. During the first year of Aenys's reign, several rebellions broke out. In the Vale of Arryn, "

He wasn't able to ditch his dragon, but if you put it in game terms, he was able to put off claiming one until the one he wanted happened to become available. In fact, this sort of makes sense to me in games where there are lots of dragons. I suspect that the people on the Iron Throne would have sort of a home field advantage in claiming the best of those available for their own.


Certain characters will already wait for a large dragon, (see calculate_dragon_preference_effect).
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by hjkh123 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 01:46

Do characters choose which dragon to tame at random? seems like whether they go for stronger or easier to tame should be determined by their traits.

Also to avoid random lowborns running off with your dragons you can also move your capital back to dragonstone.
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by PallyWC » Mon Oct 16, 2017 06:03

hjkh123 wrote:Do characters choose which dragon to tame at random? seems like whether they go for stronger or easier to tame should be determined by their traits.

Also to avoid random lowborns running off with your dragons you can also move your capital back to dragonstone.

dragonstone doesnt solve random ppl running off with your dragons...it just means random ppl on dragonstone will try to tame....unless you have a pit....which counters the entire reason for being dragonstone....

in short...get the dragontamer laws submod :P lol
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Mon Oct 16, 2017 13:38

[`] charinfo on
kill ######

My personal favorite is to force imprison anybody that ends up with my dragons, castrate them and then kill them.
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Re: Playing as a Targ, and my current situation is kind of absurd

PostPosted by PallyWC » Mon Oct 16, 2017 13:44

LancelotLoire wrote:[`] charinfo on
kill ######

My personal favorite is to force imprison anybody that ends up with my dragons, castrate them and then kill them.

so manual dragon tamer laws :P lol
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