The Citadel

Well, now you can call in allies at any time during a war, it doesn't have to be at the start of a war.

Or at least, you can ask them to join. If they say no, I think you have to wait like 5 years.

I'm sure you guys have already considered this, but the winds of winter scenario that Grell made for his ck1 mod ended up being a massively different experience than the original scenario. Granted, robert's rebellion is the natural place to start, but a lot of players might find more enjoyment playing with a starting situation that doesn't have the entire realm divided into two massive power blocks. Lotta smaller, independent holdings to work with in other time frames. Please don't put off an alternate scenario for too long.

Gavinn wrote:I'm sure you guys have already considered this, but the winds of winter scenario that Grell made for his ck1 mod ended up being a massively different experience than the original scenario. Granted, robert's rebellion is the natural place to start, but a lot of players might find more enjoyment playing with a starting situation that doesn't have the entire realm divided into two massive power blocks. Lotta smaller, independent holdings to work with in other time frames. Please don't put off an alternate scenario for too long.

We'll definitely do something like that eventually, but we definitely want to make sure everything is playable on the "Robert's Rebellion" scenario first. Better to have one playable scenario than two unplayable ones.

Other potential scenarios
Aegon's Conquest - 7 Independent Kingdoms, invading Targaryens
Blackfyre Rebellion - Targaryen Civil War For Monarchy
War of Five Kings - 5 Way War

Vassal lords should be able to side with or against the Targaryens independently as several went against their Lord Paramount.

Another thing to consider is the power of the Iron Throne-title. I do not have much experience with the Holy Roman Empire myself, but it will surely be boring if once either Targaryen or Baratheon wins the game will just stale into one unbreakable realm.

We can tinker with the mechanics of crown authority. There are a lot of people working with mods right now on the Paradox forums, hopefully some of them will hit onto a good balance that we can bring into play once we have all the basics set up.

imo, there should be more restrictons on increasing crown authority and higher penalties to cause more civil wars/plots.

Has the culture/religion of Greyjoy been discussed? In Grell's mod, at least the Winds of Winter-scenario, they were heathens and usually attacked more or less everyone, and everyone attacked them. With all other realms locked in to the same faith, these recurring Greyjoy-wars became very predictable after running the scenario a few times. On the other hand, it does make some loreish sense to have Ironborn raiding the western coast, but I always felt it went a bit too far in Grell's mod.

Just a few thoughts.

I believe the plan is currently for them to have their own religion, though we may mess with the holy war CB so that you don't get a freebie war with them. Really, we don't need anyone to have a holy war CB as it currently is between Christians and Muslims/Pagans (or perhaps make them available for Greyjoys but not against Greyjoys so they'll piss everybody off but not get exterminated)

Of course, we can't do raiding except through event trees, and they're going to be a bit inherently weak, so it will probably be a while before the Greyjoys are balanced.

I think the Greyjoys should have a "raid" CB. Allowing them to declare war but gain just money & prestige. Fits the canon, screw balance.

It more or less try to hold together once your the top dog.

Regarding the Greyjoys "raid" CB.
What about this;

Not sure if you already have something like this, but I've been working on some simple pagan stuff myself and one thing I made was a "Raid" CB for pagan groups. It's still a work in progress but here's a functional version I'm playing around with atm:

EDIT: Updated with a version that hasn't given me any trouble so far.

Code: Select all

raid = {
   name = CB_NAME_RAID
   war_name = CB_WAR_NAME_RAID
   sprite = 6
   truce_days = 1825
   is_permanent = yes   
   can_call_allies = no   

   can_use = {
      OR = {
         ROOT = {
            OR = {
               religion = norse_pagan
               religion = baltic_pagan
               religion = finnish_pagan
            }
         }
         OR = {
            religion = norse_pagan
            religion = baltic_pagan
            religion = finnish_pagan
         }   
      }
         ROOT = { NOT = { same_realm = FROM } }         
         FROM = { NOT = { religion_group = pagan_group } }         
   }               

   is_valid = {
      OR = {
         ROOT = {
            OR = {
               religion = norse_pagan
               religion = baltic_pagan
               religion = finnish_pagan
            }
         }
         OR = {
            religion = norse_pagan
            religion = baltic_pagan
            religion = finnish_pagan
         }
      }
      ROOT = { NOT = { same_realm = FROM } }
      FROM = { NOT = { religion_group = pagan_group } }         
   }
   
   on_success = {
      FROM = {
         transfer_scaled_wealth = {
            to = ROOT
            value = 4.0
         }
      }
      ROOT = {
         prestige = 50
      }
   }

   on_fail = {
      ROOT = {
         prestige = -50
      }
   }

   on_reverse_demand = {
      ROOT = {
         prestige = -100   
         imprison = FROM
      }
      FROM = {
         prestige = 100      
      }
   }

   attacker_ai_victory_worth = {
      factor = -1 # always accept
   }
   
   attacker_ai_defeat_worth = {
      factor = 100
   }

   defender_ai_victory_worth = {
      factor = -1 # always accept
   }
   
   defender_ai_defeat_worth = {
      factor = 50
   }
}

Victory means prestige and wealth from the enemy. Failure means loss of face (prestige) and imprisonment of your leader.

Taken form here; http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... -out-there

Seems like it can work for us as well?

yes, could be interesting.
And we can add a event to steal some salt-wives!

I like that idea! I had some similar stuff in the Iron Islands thread (topic34.html) but you know your coding much better

Alright here's my modification of the raid CB. Following AlecTrevelyan006 suggestions, the White Peace results in wealth, prestige and piety (winnings basically doubles it - values have to be tested). Losing means imprisonment of the Leader and loss of piety & prestige.

Code: Select all

raid = {
   name = CB_NAME_RAID
   war_name = CB_WAR_NAME_RAID
   sprite = 6
   truce_days = 1825
   is_permanent = yes   
   can_call_allies = no   

   can_use = {
      OR = {
         ROOT = {
            OR = {
               religion = drowned_god
            }
         }
         OR = {
            religion = drowned_god

         }   
      }
         ROOT = { NOT = { same_realm = FROM } }         
         FROM = { NOT = { religion_group = drowned_god_group } }         
   }               

   is_valid = {
      OR = {
         ROOT = {
            OR = {
               religion = drowned_god
            }
         }
         OR = {
            religion = drowned_god
         }
      }
      ROOT = { NOT = { same_realm = FROM } }
      FROM = { NOT = { religion_group = drowned_god_group } }         
   }
   
   on_success = {
      FROM = {
         transfer_scaled_wealth = {
            to = ROOT
            value = 8.0
         }
      }
      ROOT = {
         prestige = 100
       piety = 50
      }
   }

   on_fail = {
      FROM = {
         transfer_scaled_wealth = {
            to = ROOT
            value = 4.0
         }
      }
      ROOT = {
         prestige = 50
       piety = 25
      }
   }

   on_reverse_demand = {
      ROOT = {
         prestige = -100   
         imprison = FROM
      }
      FROM = {
         prestige = 100 
       piety = 50
      }
   }

   attacker_ai_victory_worth = {
      factor = -1 # always accept
   }
   
   attacker_ai_defeat_worth = {
      factor = 100
   }

   defender_ai_victory_worth = {
      factor = -1 # always accept
   }
   
   defender_ai_defeat_worth = {
      factor = 50
   }
}

Tested the code in vanilla. Todo: display names

After doing some testing it doesn't seem like a good way. White Peace would be abused easily and peace could be made even with a small winning factor like 3%.
I changed the values to white peace = -10 piety for attacker (small punishment) and the surrender for the cash comes already at 30% winning factor. That should be possible
through "raiding".

Sounds very good! White peace should probably not be loaded with any attacker benefits, as you yourself point out. Excellent solution though

AlecTrevelyan006 wrote:I like that idea! I had some similar stuff in the Iron Islands thread (topic34.html) but you know your coding much better

Yes, i read that. Very good suggestions. Just brought up someone that actually coded something similar.
Didn't mean any disrespect.

and its not my coding... its from the plazza-mod forum!
Kudos to "ATP" for that.

Ogaburan wrote:

AlecTrevelyan006 wrote:I like that idea! I had some similar stuff in the Iron Islands thread (topic34.html) but you know your coding much better

Yes, i read that. Very good suggestions. Just brought up someone that actually coded something similar.
Didn't mean any disrespect.

and its not my coding... its from the plazza-mod forum!
Kudos to "ATP" for that.

No disrespect taken, I didn't mean anything like that, I just wanted to get involved in the discussion.

Hopefully the Ironmen will be just as annoying in game as in the books

Is it possible for the heir to be imprisoned instead of the lord? I was wondering because Theon Greyjoy was taken as a hostage not Balon.

GenghisCan wrote:Is it possible for the heir to be imprisoned instead of the lord? I was wondering because Theon Greyjoy was taken as a hostage not Balon.

Maybe we can make an event that triggers at end_war that will let us choose if we want to force-ward someone.
Form what i see, game actually lets you have more then 2 wards at a time, it just dosent let you ask for new wards.

Event will trigger a decision to be made for each of the males sons under the age of 16.

thoughts?