The Citadel

Little report; In my first game as Lannisters the war ended pretty quick. After like half a year, for some time I found it boring but then another possibility came... a new usurper war raged and and I fought for 13 years before the last horn were blowed and thousands of thousands skeletons laid across the ground through whole westeros!

Now until the current version is compatible to 1.6 I am considering playing as any Major duke or Paramount Jon Arryn of Vale!

Zarine wrote:As for a strategy game, I always felt that strategy game were bad for adapting stories.

I don't think of this mod as adapting the story of the books, rather it's adapting the world and then letting new stories be written. Think of it as an interactive fanfic generator

kernco wrote:

Zarine wrote:As for a strategy game, I always felt that strategy game were bad for adapting stories.

I don't think of this mod as adapting the story of the books, rather it's adapting the world and then letting new stories be written. Think of it as an interactive fanfic generator

Very true, but I also think sometimes it can be tastefully done if given certain multiple choice options about a certain event that happened in any of the books and kind of see how that choice plays out in the game. (Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga Ambition series comes to mind about tastefully done events with certain options for different outcomes...)

However, that's a moot point for now since the mod mainly takes place 16-14 years before the events of the book (and scripting a book related event 16 years after you start the game is kind of pointless as too much would have already happened in your game with a huge variety of different outcomes, E.G. Targs win Robert Rebellion's, More Mega-Wars, etc..) but perhaps down the line when the team focuses on certain scenarios that were directly talked about in the books (Clash of the Five Kings for example), maybe they can include some its story too via CK II nifty Event Scripts...

The game started smoothly - The war was commencing and it was Robert's win surely - but suddenly, Eddard Stark took his armies and went walking around the North in circles (literally, just bouncing from province to province) and ended up being the reason Robert lost the war. Is this normal behavior for the AI or is something wrong with that?

dvinn wrote:The game started smoothly - The war was commencing and it was Robert's win surely - but suddenly, Eddard Stark took his armies and went walking around the North in circles (literally, just bouncing from province to province) and ended up being the reason Robert lost the war. Is this normal behavior for the AI or is something wrong with that?

He's trying to run away from Robert, and, had Robert won, Ned would've been involved in The War of Eddard Stark's Arse.
(Joke; I don't know what's up with that, that's not how my AI behaved in the scenario)

Just a minor thing, but do I remember that you can't go to war with someone if your son is in their prison? Is this also true of daughters/sisters? It'd be completely superficial but I'd appreciate if Lyanna was imprisoned in Rhaegar's court if that doesn't mess with anything.

If I'm not wrong, one major decision for Robert to start the revolt was because Lyanna was raped and killed by Rhaegar
But I can be totally wrong

You are, Lyanna has an ambiguous relation with Raegar

dvinn wrote:The game started smoothly - The war was commencing and it was Robert's win surely - but suddenly, Eddard Stark took his armies and went walking around the North in circles (literally, just bouncing from province to province) and ended up being the reason Robert lost the war. Is this normal behavior for the AI or is something wrong with that?

Oh, dear. It appears Ned's boatitis has relapsed. I'm afraid the only known cure is an emergency boatectomy.

Basically, this is a known bug, which generally doesn't come up because the North has no boats. Apparently they got some somehow in your game, and the AI reasoned as follows:

(1) I am far away from King's Landing.
(2) I own at least one boat.
(3) (1) and (2), therefore I should commit entirely to an amphibious assault on King's Landing.

Minor details like "actually owning a fleet large enough to transport my armies" and "travel time" don't enter into it.

The only solution we were able to find was to take ALL the North's ships away. It seems it's still possible for them to get them, though.

EDIT: Although, now that I think about it, you did say Ned's army was bouncing from province to province, whereas the more usual symptom of boatitis is marching your troops to various coastal provinces and sitting there forever. You might just have encountered a different military AI bug.

roddan93 wrote:

Just a minor thing, but do I remember that you can't go to war with someone if your son is in their prison? Is this also true of daughters/sisters? It'd be completely superficial but I'd appreciate if Lyanna was imprisoned in Rhaegar's court if that doesn't mess with anything.

If I'm not wrong, one major decision for Robert to start the revolt was because Lyanna was raped and killed by Rhaegar
But I can be totally wrong

We don't know how the relation between Rhaegar and Lyanna was but its true that her kidnapping was one of the reasons. The main reason for Jon Arryn to start the rebellion was however that Aerys wanted to kill both Eddard and Robert, and which kind of forced them into war. Also Robert wasn't the leader of the rebellion untill very late, probably just before the Trident if I recall, and untill then Jon Arryn probably was the official leader due to the rebellion being started on his initiative.

Galle wrote:

dvinn wrote:The game started smoothly - The war was commencing and it was Robert's win surely - but suddenly, Eddard Stark took his armies and went walking around the North in circles (literally, just bouncing from province to province) and ended up being the reason Robert lost the war. Is this normal behavior for the AI or is something wrong with that?

Oh, dear. It appears Ned's boatitis has relapsed. I'm afraid the only known cure is an emergency boatectomy.

Basically, this is a known bug, which generally doesn't come up because the North has no boats. Apparently they got some somehow in your game, and the AI reasoned as follows:

(1) I am far away from King's Landing.
(2) I own at least one boat.
(3) (1) and (2), therefore I should commit entirely to an amphibious assault on King's Landing.

Minor details like "actually owning a fleet large enough to transport my armies" and "travel time" don't enter into it.

The only solution we were able to find was to take ALL the North's ships away. It seems it's still possible for them to get them, though.

EDIT: Although, now that I think about it, you did say Ned's army was bouncing from province to province, whereas the more usual symptom of boatitis is marching your troops to various coastal provinces and sitting there forever. You might just have encountered a different military AI bug.

I think that the "bouncing" might just be a general Paradox AI bug that crops up every so often. In a game where I was the Emperor of Britannia, two of my English dukes went to war and the one that should have won put all his levies in a big stack and bounced between two provinces instead of finishing a siege to put the boot down.

Restarting the game seemed to fix it, but it might have just been that the war ended.

tompalmer wrote:You are, Lyanna has an ambiguous relation with Raegar

Im a fan of the Raegar/Lyanna secret love affair theory.

westeros wiki states john snow looks more like a northerner than the other stark children, indicating a different parentage.
Eddard is an honourable man and is hesitant to divulge who layana's mother is to robert while eating on the way down to kings road.
When departing to the nights watch, Ed says to John, i'll tell you about your mother with sadness
Ed refers to john saying 'my blood', 'stark blood' as opposed to 'my son'

Raegar crowned her beauty of the tournament, probably played her songs on the harp and escaping a betrothal for the affection of a prince as opposed an brute like robert would seem logical.

Kings guard protecting lyanna in the tower of joy (a safehouse not redkeep dungeon or tower of prison and death) as opposed to prison guards because her child (john snow) is future king

John Snow = John Targaryen

To keep this on topic, yes ck2 mod boats seem fine now

Any tips for winning the war on the side of the rebellion when playing as a minor lord? Currently up to double digits victories for the Targs and only one for the rebellion (thus far), which only came about because the AI bugged out on the Targ side.

Follow the leader. If you cant muster several thousand troops, the only thing you can do is tag along with the massive armies led by High Lords and Lord Paramounts, and click on that button that attaches you to them. If you do have a decent amount of soldiers, you can try and fight your own battles and siege holdings but you need to watch out for those ridiculously huge armies. You are just a speedbump to them.

Fashbinder wrote:westeros wiki states Jon Snow looks more like a northerner than the other stark children, indicating a different parentage.
Eddard is an honourable man and is hesitant to divulge who Lyanna's [Jon's] mother is to Robert while eating on the way down to kings road.
When departing to the nights watch, Ned says to Jon, i'll tell you about your mother with sadness
Ned refers to Jon saying 'my blood', 'stark blood' as opposed to 'my son'

I'm a big fan of the "Jon Snow is Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar's son" theory as well, but you have to admit that all of those have plausible explanations:

1. Jon Snow looks more Northman because all the other children take after their mother, Catelyn Tully, which Jon doesn't share. Genetics would say this is entirely possible: Tully genes could conceivably have more dominant alleles than Stark genes. Jon Snow's mother could simply have recessive genes that aren't expressed when mixed with Stark genes.

2. Ned Stark is repeatedly described as holding his honor dear to himself. His reluctance to tell Robert about who he fathered a bastard by would be analogous to the old "I don't kiss and tell" line used by people today.

3. Presumably, Ned's mistress would have met with misfortune (for example, some point out that Ashara Dayne is a candidate, and is alleged to have thrown herself from a tower), which would indicate Ned's sorrow at losing someone he loved. If Ned's lover hadn't met an untimely end, why did Ned, with his honorable code, separate her from her own child?

4. Ned Stark's refusal to openly name Jon as his son could be interpreted as a result of his stringent code of honor, which would prevent him from placing Jon in company with his lawful sons (historically, it was extremely dangerous to give bastards too much legitimacy, for fear they would usurp rightful heirs). Jon is not allowed to eat with the Starks during important meals, nor is he given a place worthy of the son of a Targaryen Prince and Stark Lady. That would seem to indicate his heritage is of lower status.

Snake wrote:Follow the leader. If you cant muster several thousand troops, the only thing you can do is tag along with the massive armies led by High Lords and Lord Paramounts, and click on that button that attaches you to them. If you do have a decent amount of soldiers, you can try and fight your own battles and siege holdings but you need to watch out for those ridiculously huge armies. You are just a speedbump to them.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing. The problem is that (as I see it) who the leaders are for each side (and the way the vanilla AI works). Because the AI only blobs with the leader (and you can only join your liege lord or the war leader as playable), the rebellion's main force (Arryn, Tully and Stark) never blob or assist each other if the Targ doom stack is rolling around the Crownlands taking out their forces (which is capable of blobbing up to 40k with negligible attrition losses).

This is largely an AI issue though, of course. The only feasible way I could see changing it up would be to make Jon Arryn the leader (I mean, he was the leader of the rebellion anyway) and changing the CB to install Robert on the throne. Theoretically that should let the Riverlands, North and Vale forces link up more effectively but I can't work out which CB is the right one to be able to simulate it properly.

Failing that, I'll suck it up and play as one of the LPs for the duration of the war.

StannisB wrote:Any tips for winning the war on the side of the rebellion when playing as a minor lord? Currently up to double digits victories for the Targs and only one for the rebellion (thus far), which only came about because the AI bugged out on the Targ side.

It all comes down to which side tywin joins and that is determined by warscore and opinion. If aery's and raegar are dead, the rebellion will almost always win. As a minor lord with a small army, its going to be near impossible to effect these events, playing as the cleganes I was able to kill aerys in field combat, gaining the trait 'kingslayer'. But now you mention it, i'll try get a 3 from 3 winrate as the defenders as a high lord. But yeah, its pretty random, pretty ballanced and usually up to tywin. Perfect I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7hVQGi ... 93751E9307

Fashbinder wrote:

StannisB wrote:Any tips for winning the war on the side of the rebellion when playing as a minor lord? Currently up to double digits victories for the Targs and only one for the rebellion (thus far), which only came about because the AI bugged out on the Targ side.

It all comes down to which side tywin joins and that is determined by warscore and opinion. If aery's and raegar are dead, the rebellion will almost always win. As a minor lord with a small army, its going to be near impossible to effect these events, playing as the cleganes I was able to kill aerys in field combat, gaining the trait 'kingslayer'. But now you mention it, i'll try get a 3 from 3 winrate as the defenders as a high lord. But yeah, its pretty random, pretty ballanced and usually up to tywin. Perfect I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7hVQGi ... 93751E9307

Honestly thus far in my experience, Tywin makes no difference what-so-ever (as far as Robert's side goes). He brings a sizeable army to the plate (around 35k on average or there abouts so far for me) but they are split up (in order to avoid attrition) and get eaten like everyone else's armies. I'll check out the video link I get a chance a bit later.

Edit: Silly Aerys, he should have listened to Varys.

Fashbinder wrote:

tompalmer wrote:You are, Lyanna has an ambiguous relation with Raegar

Im a fan of the Raegar/Lyanna secret love affair theory.

westeros wiki states john snow looks more like a northerner than the other stark children, indicating a different parentage.
Eddard is an honourable man and is hesitant to divulge who layana's mother is to robert while eating on the way down to kings road.
When departing to the nights watch, Ed says to John, i'll tell you about your mother with sadness
Ed refers to john saying 'my blood', 'stark blood' as opposed to 'my son'

Raegar crowned her beauty of the tournament, probably played her songs on the harp and escaping a betrothal for the affection of a prince as opposed an brute like robert would seem logical.

Kings guard protecting lyanna in the tower of joy (a safehouse not redkeep dungeon or tower of prison and death) as opposed to prison guards because her child (john snow) is future king

John Snow = John Targaryen


To keep this on topic, yes ck2 mod boats seem fine now

Everything about your argument is logical expect for Jon Snow would not have been future King as Aegon and Rhaenys were already born. He still would have wanted to keep his bastard son a secret and keep Lyanna's maidenhood a secret however.

I still want a Blackfyre rebellion scenario =S

I'm a fan of the Rhaegar/Lyanna theory as well. At the very least, I think Lyanna is Jon's mother. Howland Reed is still a mystery that will hopefully come to bear fruit in the next book. I think he is more powerful than has been let on and, as it's been mentioned, is the only living witness of the Tower of Joy.

Speaking of Lyanna, in the Robert's Rebellion scenario can anyone else free her from imprisonment or does it have to be Robert? I was playing as Ned and the Iron Throne was taken (by Tywin Lannister after Robert's death) but Lyanna still stayed imprisoned.