Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

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Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Galle » Fri Jul 05, 2013 09:32

The societies of Essos stand on different foundations from those of Westeros. To them, Westerosi serfdom and feudalism is utterly barbaric. Democracy may be rare in Westeros, but across the Narrow Sea, it thrives. None of which, however, is to say that the people of Essos lack their own demons. This is the land of the Valyrian Freehold, of the Great Cities of the Ghiscari, of Qarth and Volantis. This is the land where men live free and build great cities, but only at a greater cost. This is the land of slavery.

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Our plan is to model slavery using two separate, parallel systems - one to track individual characters trained and sold as domestic slaves, and another to track the large slave populations that serve as the working class of Essos's great cities. This developer diary will concentrate on the first system.

First and foremost, there is now a new crown law - called, appropriately, slavery. This law determines the legality and technicalities of slavery in your nation. For most kingdoms, by default, slavery is simply strictly Legal or Illegal, but the Ironborn use a special form of slavery that allows only for the enslavement of prisoners of war, while minor restrictions on the slave trade can be forced on other nations through war. For nations where slavery is simply Illegal, owning a slave yourself is right out - you'd be caught almost immediately. Selling prisoners into slavery is still possible, but comes at the risk of being discovered - and punished - by your liege.

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Fresh slaves can come from a few sources. First, under Chattel Slavery, the children of slaves are born slaves, and slave traders may take steps to ensure that there is a healthy supply of such children. Second, prisoners can be either enslaved by their hosts, or sold directly to slavers. Third, there is a new Slave Raid casus belli available under Chattel Slavery and Thralldom. Slave Raids target a single province - either one that borders the raider, or a coastal province if the raider has access to ships - and, if successful, sack that province and randomly generate five new slaves of its culture and religion for the raider. On the other hand, if a slave raid is completely defeated, the defender can liberate any slaves of their culture or dynasty the raiders may have in captivity.

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The newly enslaved are, understandably, rather upset about it, and will almost always despise their masters. Both this problem, and the distribution of slaves throughout the world in general, are handled by slave traders. Any patrician operating under Chattel Slavery may become a slave trader, but it tends to be most common in the great cities of Slaver's Bay.

A slave trader has the unique distinction of being in the business of buying and selling slaves, in a system which ties into the trade mechanics. Slave traders benefit from controlling trade posts by gaining the right of first refusal in every slave transaction made in that province. If the lord of that province wants to sell a slave, he'll have to hear the local slave trader's offer first, before anyone else's. If he wants to buy a new one, the selection at the local trade post will be the first he sees. Either way, the slaver benefits.

When actually buying and selling slaves, the trader has the ability to set the price. Slaves can be sold for one of three prices - low, medium, and high. It is the goal of the trader to pick a price they believe is fair - or, more likely, the best price they think they can get away with. Once the trader has set the price, the buyer or seller has the option to either accept it, or walk away and try to find a new slave trader. The result is a sort of mini-bidding-game - how low can you buy, and how high can you sell?

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Once a slave is actually in your custody, you have many options for dealing with them. If they're uncooperative, you may have them lashed in an attempt to break their spirit. Repeated lashings can turn even the most rebellious slave into a meek, obsequious servant - or into a bloody corpse. Be warned! Slavery is a grim, soul-destroying practice, for both the slave and the slaver. It is a rare man who can trade in human suffering each day and not come out empty ad hollow on the inside. Or, in less poetic terms, if you become a slave trader, expect to wind up with very little piety and lots of lots of negative personality traits.

Next time (in this sequence, not necessarily the next Dev Diary) we'll look at slavery on a larger scale - all about the vast, faceless masses, without whom the cities of Essos would crumble into dust.
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Aegon VI Targaryen » Fri Jul 05, 2013 09:44

Oh man, this looks so great. I can't wait to play around with this system.
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Beric Dondarion » Fri Jul 05, 2013 09:46

What happens if the King of the Iron Throne, or any king in Westeros, makes slavery legal? If I were to be King of The Rock and make slavery legal, while still being Faith of the Seven, would my Lords get angry? And would efficiency of building stuff increase?
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Galle » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:02

Beric Dondarion wrote:What happens if the King of the Iron Throne, or any king in Westeros, makes slavery legal? If I were to be King of The Rock and make slavery legal, while still being Faith of the Seven, would my Lords get angry? And would efficiency of building stuff increase?


Both of those things would happen. The details of the latter will be covered in the second dev diary on this subject, while the details of the former (and what can happen as a result) should be covered in the third.
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by ArchAngelWC » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:17

what could happen as a result of a green lands kingdom going slavery...well first...they would build harranhal...lol..then all the riverlanders would join with Aegon the second he lands and dance around the flames of harranhal burning in jubilant celebration....
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by DarkRandy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 13:01

Will there be an option to sell your children into slavery? Or if you dont pay back a loan they will take one of your family members into slavery?
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by TheBurnedMen » Fri Jul 05, 2013 15:17

So what's going to stop the King of the Iron Throne immediately legalising slavery?
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by harbinger » Fri Jul 05, 2013 15:30

TheBurnedMen wrote:So what's going to stop the King of the Iron Throne immediately legalising slavery?

Perhaps it's incompatible with the Faith of the Seven, so implementing slavery will give a huge minus relations to all the King's vassals, resulting in rebellions.
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Galle » Fri Jul 05, 2013 15:32

TheBurnedMen wrote:So what's going to stop the King of the Iron Throne immediately legalising slavery?


Changing the law is restricted by culture and religion. You'd need to, at the very last, acquire a vassal of a culture or religion that approves of slavery. In theory, Aegon can do it if he never converts to the Faith of the Seven, but that's a bad idea for plenty of reasons.

And after that, of course, you'd have to deal with all the vassals you just infuriated.

Opposition to slavery in general will be the focus of the third part of this dev diary sequence. You'll be able to get pretty harsh in your abolitionist crusade across Westeros and Essos, if that's what you're after.
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by VxXxV » Fri Jul 05, 2013 15:54

1. Is there any limit on how many slave you can have ?
(Probably build additional building on family house as patricians , "Slave House" )
2. Limit how many slave you can buy / sell at once ?
3. Which will give more profit? , Slave or Trade post ?
4. Will there be an option to use slave as army? (Sacrifice 20 adult slave to create 200 special event army as example)
5.What happen when slave is given landed title?
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by harbinger » Fri Jul 05, 2013 16:06

Do feel free to keep posting goodies. Love it.
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Galle » Fri Jul 05, 2013 16:07

VxXxV wrote:1. Is there any limit on how many slave you can have ?
(Probably build additional building on family house as patricians , "Slave House" )

On domestic slaves? No.

VxXxV wrote:2. Limit how many slave you can buy / sell at once ?

Domestic slaves are bought and sold one at a time. "Bulk" slaves are another issue entirely.

VxXxV wrote:3. Which will give more profit? , Slave or Trade post ?

It... depends, I guess?

VxXxV wrote:4. Will there be an option to use slave as army? (Sacrifice 20 adult slave to create 200 special event army as example)

This is really another "bulk slavery" thing, but basically yes. It may not necessarily be a good idea, though.

VxXxV wrote:5.What happen when slave is given landed title?

Can't be done.
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by VxXxV » Fri Jul 05, 2013 16:17

- 1 domestic slaves is sold for 250 in your SS , isn't that too much for unlimited domestic ?

- Will there be special rebel slave revolt for Old Gods owner? , number decided by bulk slave

- any revolt risk for high number of bulk slave ?


(Domestic slave need a limit , with character customization you can make pagan patrician , imprison courtier with same religion , make him slave , give him 4 wives , Profit)
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Galle » Fri Jul 05, 2013 16:35

VxXxV wrote:- 1 domestic slaves is sold for 250 in your SS , isn't that too much for unlimited domestic ?

The specific balance details are still a work in progress, obviously. I'll take it under advisement.

VxXxV wrote:- Will there be special rebel slave revolt for Old Gods owner? , number decided by bulk slave

- any revolt risk for high number of bulk slave ?

A detailed response to these will be the subject of a future dev diary. The short answer is "Yes. Very yes."
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by magaZIN3D » Fri Jul 05, 2013 17:03

can you have children with a slave like a courtier?
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by VxXxV » Fri Jul 05, 2013 17:19

magaZIN3D wrote:can you have children with a slave like a courtier?


I think simple visit will work , with 100% chances
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Velg » Fri Jul 05, 2013 17:25

I already asked this on CK II forum, in the AGoT subforum. I believe Galle answer was that you can visit their chambers, but they can spurn your advances. Then, of course, you'll can whip them until they are either willing to couple with your or dead. Which, of course, will be great way to obtain all those negative traits ;)

If they'll agree to couple, you'll have your children soon enough - and in this point you'll have little scandal, as slave-childs are meant to be quite scandalous.

PS. Right now I think that this enslaving Cersei Lannister is quite enslaving possibility ;)
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Absurdity » Fri Jul 05, 2013 18:24

Velg wrote:
PS. Right now I think that this enslaving Cersei Lannister is quite enslaving possibility ;)


It quite disturbs me how many people think Cersei deserves to be raped and murdered.
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by Velg » Fri Jul 05, 2013 18:31

Nah. I don't believe that she deserves such fate - in fact, I don't even hate her so much. Clearly, by law she should be put to the sword - but I am quite OK with Cersei as happily reigning Lady Paramount of Westerlands in my game 8) [for the record, it's Daenerys I hate; but then again, she has dragons, so it isn't even a possibility...]

It's more like I think it'd be fun thing to do - along the lines that playing as Aerys the Mad and burning half the realm in your lunacy is hilarious ;P
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Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part I

PostPosted by SilverPhantom2 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 02:05

Besides selling slaves for quick cash, what's the benefit to this side of the slavery system? It seems like buying/warring for slaves this way just gets you a courtier that absolutely hates you and can plot (or join plots) to kill you.
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