Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

For any general subject related to the mod

Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Galle » Wed Jul 24, 2013 04:53

In addition to domestic slaves, the civilizations of Essos also use mass slave labor to build and maintain their vast cities. These faceless masses are the underclass of Essos, who number in the hundreds of thousands. This reliance on slaves is a mixed blessing, however - on the one hand, it provides a source of cheap labor that can be used to up hold grand and glorious societies. On the other, it means those societies will always stand on the shakiest of foundations, the loyalty of thousands who have no reason to be loyal.

Image

These thousands of slave laborers are represented by a new building chain, the Slave Camp. Slave Camps can't be built normally - they are acquired much like domestic slaves, through Slave Raids and being bought and sold by slave traders - and come in five levels - Tiny, Small, Average, Large, and Huge - each of which provides tax income and a large supply of light infantry. The downside of this cheap source of manpower, of course, is that untrained slaves aren't exactly known for their courage and loyalty in battle - in addition to providing you with more manpower, slave camps will also ensure that your light infantry will break at the first sign of trouble.

Image

Besides the benefits a slave camp provides directly to its controller, it provides another advantage for the province in which it resides. The largest slave camp in a province gives that province a Slave Labor bonus - a reduction in construction time and costs that increases with each camp level Backed by this power, it's possible to undertake vast construction projects in a slave city that would be unthinkable elsewhere.

Once again, however, this power comes at a price. The more slaves a province has, the more likely they are to disobey their masters - in addition to the construction bonuses, the Slave Labor bonus also increases revolt risk. There are ways to keep these risks under control, but the possibility of a slave revolt will remain a looming shadow over any slave economy.

Next time, in the third and final dev diary in this sequence, we'll look at exactly what happens when that possibility becomes a reality.
The North Remembers.
Galle
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 14:43

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Galle » Wed Jul 24, 2013 04:56

Oh, and to head speculation off at the pass - no, the specific numbers you see above are almost certainly not what you'll get come release. We haven't even /started/ to balance this yet.
The North Remembers.
Galle
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 14:43

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by SerBrightflame » Wed Jul 24, 2013 07:04

awesome!
SerBrightflame
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:28
Location: Where whores go...

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Nekulturny » Wed Jul 24, 2013 09:31

Looks like a very impressive system guys. Keep up the good work, can't wait to try it!
Nekulturny
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 14:59

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Dondarrion » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:54

Seems amazing!
Altough I am curious as the slave camp are located at the mansion level, does this make you unable to house slave labour as a feudal lord, or a as a Bishopric?
Dondarrion
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 22:00

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Grongo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:22

Really looking forward to it!
Grongo
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:39

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by bontanel » Wed Jul 24, 2013 14:32

Keep up the good work guys, this certainly enlightened my day.
bontanel
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:25

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Velg » Wed Jul 24, 2013 16:00

Awesome! But one question: how are you going to model highly trained slave forces, like e.g. Unsullied?

My personal favourite would be making them retinues. After setting RETINUE_FROM_REALMSIZE to 0, and clearing retinue cap effects from buildings, Westerosi – and most of Essos – should have retinue cap 0, so they still would be retinue-free. On the other hand, you could add culture building like Unsullied Training Grounds [maybe with different levels of advancement?, and requiring slave camp of the same maginitude], which would negate effect of slave camp, but raise also your retinue cap, allowing to create Unsullied.
Velg
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 15:36

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Galle » Wed Jul 24, 2013 17:32

Dondarrion wrote:Seems amazing!
Altough I am curious as the slave camp are located at the mansion level, does this make you unable to house slave labour as a feudal lord, or a as a Bishopric?


Nope. The slave camps are holding-type-agnostic (don't ask how we pulled this off technically, the code isn't pretty).

Velg wrote:Awesome! But one question: how are you going to model highly trained slave forces, like e.g. Unsullied?

My personal favourite would be making them retinues. After setting RETINUE_FROM_REALMSIZE to 0, and clearing retinue cap effects from buildings, Westerosi – and most of Essos – should have retinue cap 0, so they still would be retinue-free. On the other hand, you could add culture building like Unsullied Training Grounds [maybe with different levels of advancement?, and requiring slave camp of the same maginitude], which would negate effect of slave camp, but raise also your retinue cap, allowing to create Unsullied.


We're not sure yet, to be honest, we've discussed both options you raised. At the moment we're leaning towards event-spawned armies.
The North Remembers.
Galle
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 14:43

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Velg » Wed Jul 24, 2013 17:46

Oh, and I have one thing to ask: this morale modifier will affect entirety of light infantry in province? If so: it sounds... very harsh. I guess it's OK for small provinces (aside from battle order – I believe slaves would be stationed in first lines, so they couldn't escape any other way than through the shield wall behind them), but I think it could be detrimental for e.g. fully reinforced levy of King's Landing, which would have much more non-slave light infantry.
Velg
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 15:36

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Baelor the Blessed » Wed Jul 24, 2013 17:47

Velg wrote:Awesome! But one question: how are you going to model highly trained slave forces, like e.g. Unsullied?

My personal favourite would be making them retinues. After setting RETINUE_FROM_REALMSIZE to 0, and clearing retinue cap effects from buildings, Westerosi – and most of Essos – should have retinue cap 0, so they still would be retinue-free. On the other hand, you could add culture building like Unsullied Training Grounds [maybe with different levels of advancement?, and requiring slave camp of the same maginitude], which would negate effect of slave camp, but raise also your retinue cap, allowing to create Unsullied.

I have never thought of doing it that way but i think it could work and it would fit in with everything else except if you were to try to hire an unsullied retinue as a non-astapori slave owner because many of the people in the free cities who own lots of slave also have unsullied guards (Illyrio Motapis) if they do this they should have an event to hire unsullied and you would get some special event levys or make it so in your estate as a republic you can make a building called unsullied guard and that could give you ~100 spearmen in levys
Fire and Prayer
User avatar
Baelor the Blessed
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 01:01

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Velg » Wed Jul 24, 2013 17:53

Galle wrote:We're not sure yet, to be honest, we've discussed both options you raised*. At the moment we're leaning towards event-spawned armies.
I guess it could work - and work better with 'buying' issue raised by poster above. Though - because I am not so familiar with the code - is it possible to limit overall event troops size somehow? I remember I kept some of those event troops from 868 AD vanilla start for good 20 years - and I certainly would prefer Free Cities not to stack those troops like crazy.

*And, of course, would be more friendly to people without LoR.
Velg
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 15:36

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Dondarrion » Wed Jul 24, 2013 18:03

Another question as you are going to play as a member of the bourgeoise, i would adpre if you coule upgrade your primairy holding (cities).
I'm wondering if you are planning to implement any way to upgrade their size to large town for example.
Another question about temple holding as they at the momment are completley homogenous, I find it weird that temple in shivering forest are equal to the great sept of baelor.
Dondarrion
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 22:00

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Velg » Wed Jul 24, 2013 18:09

Dondarrion wrote:Another question as you are going to play as a member of the bourgeoise, i would adpre if you coule upgrade your primairy holding (cities).
I'm wondering if you are planning to implement any way to upgrade their size to large town for example.
Another question about temple holding as they at the momment are completley homogenous, I find it weird that temple in shivering forest are equal to the great sept of baelor.
?
I was under impression that they used Republic DLC - so you can play vanilla patrician to experience it.

Anyway - yeah, I'd be very happy if pictures for holdings would be changed. (IIRC it can be done) Godswood picture would be sweet - and would add much immersion. Though, as far as I remember, dev team tried to avoid using works of artists independent from the team - and those have enough tasks on their head.

And if you mean mechanical difference, I fully disagree. Grand Sept of Baelor is bigger, yeah – but it doesn't exactly effects in bigger levies or stronger walls.
Velg
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 15:36

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Arokel » Wed Jul 24, 2013 19:03

great stuff
and now the rains weep o'er his halls and not a soul to hear...
User avatar
Arokel
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 20:57

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Dondarrion » Wed Jul 24, 2013 23:53

Velg wrote:
Dondarrion wrote:Another question as you are going to play as a member of the bourgeoise, i would adpre if you coule upgrade your primairy holding (cities).
I'm wondering if you are planning to implement any way to upgrade their size to large town for example.
Another question about temple holding as they at the momment are completley homogenous, I find it weird that temple in shivering forest are equal to the great sept of baelor.
?
I was under impression that they used Republic DLC - so you can play vanilla patrician to experience it.

Anyway - yeah, I'd be very happy if pictures for holdings would be changed. (IIRC it can be done) Godswood picture would be sweet - and would add much immersion. Though, as far as I remember, dev team tried to avoid using works of artists independent from the team - and those have enough tasks on their head.

And if you mean mechanical difference, I fully disagree. Grand Sept of Baelor is bigger, yeah – but it doesn't exactly effects in bigger levies or stronger walls.


I was talking about how you are able to upgrade your city size in a similar way as the upgrading castle size system with the help of your counselor, and i wasn't talking about the way they look as they currently look diffrent in game i was talking about their stats (gold yield, levies etc). But diversity of architecture sure would be a lovely addition.
I'm sorry for the missunderstanding as I have been writting everything sloppy as I'm out in the archipelago and are using my phone who is onöy equiped with really slow internet
Dondarrion
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 22:00

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by LancelotLoire » Thu Jul 25, 2013 01:03

Do it like with what happened in vanilla when the Mongols used to originally show up. In other words, I'd end up with about 3 stacks of 18000 Mongol units on the eastern side of the map which were in my control lol.
User avatar
LancelotLoire
 
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 16:32

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by NoOne_ILie » Thu Jul 25, 2013 06:00

Possibly outside of the realm of possibility but it would be interesting to include a rare event that drew upon the lore of the many-faced god, perhaps a very small percentage chance per 1000 slaves or something that leads to slave plots against the slave owners family. You wouldn't even know it at first, just random relatives dying suddenly and before you know it half your family is given the gift...
NoOne_ILie
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 21:49

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by Dragonstone » Thu Jul 25, 2013 09:27

You know if there is a faction for "Faceless Men" coming up? Like the Brothers of the Nightwatch faction and the Kingsguard one. ;)
"For the Night is dark and full of Terrors."
Image
All hail R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the One True God, may I wield Lightbringer and serve him as the Warrior of Light!
User avatar
Dragonstone
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 16:59
Location: Island of Dragonstone

Re: Dev Diary - Slavery, Part II

PostPosted by BrianDavion » Fri Jul 26, 2013 04:32

How does CK2 vanilla handle the Hasassians?
BrianDavion
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 02:51

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest