The Citadel

Well, aren't the men of the Reach located more to the south? Storm's end aswell, but I am not sure wether you use a different culture for them. Grell had andal culture, mixed with some valyrian, in Dragonstone, and westerosi for the Crownlands, if I recall.

And, anyway, for northmen everyone south of the Neck is a southener, imo. (with the rare exception of the men of the Riverlands, in the period when they are actualy allied with the North maybe) So, crownlander sounds kinda weird, but southener is a bit too broad a term to be used.

Tried hart to actualy be useful and give advice for naming the Manderly culture, but to no avail. Men of the White harbor? Harbormen (even weirded than crownlanders) Or, maybe, pie eaters?

Yeah, everybody south of the neck is a southerner to the northmen. Plus, the stormlands and the reach are both south of the Crownlands! Though I'm fine with renaming if we can come up with something better.

Yes, im not saying its perfect... im saying its better then "cownlander".
The reach is its own region... or all of these cultures can be under the Southerner primary culture.

Well, on the old thread I proposed we remove crownlander as a culture (and probably even as a de jure kingdom) and split their cultures between riverlander, stormlander and possibly reachman. After all, it's a new entity made from all the different provinces Aegon took from assorted kingdoms. We could always reconsider that.

About the Manderlys, I can't think of a proper name for this hybrid culture either, but I'm sure we can come up with something.

I gave the Manderly guys "Former Southron" culture and now they are not so revolt-happy anymore. I'll probably leave it like that unless somebody comes up with a better name

Re Manderly: We're only talking about the nobles themselves here, right? White Harbor should be of Northern Culture.

Also I'm still not quite convinced that you'd even need a seperate culture for the Manderlys. There seem to be no real differences to regular Northmen except for their faith.
They are no Clansmen of course but I'd argue that they are as Northern as a Bolton for example. To not be as northern they'd have to had married Southrons and not mingled at all with their Northern subjects, equals and lords for 1000 years. And as I said, apart from their faith I just don't see it in the books.


Edit: taking the Crownlands-Stuff to the Crownlands-Thread.

I think we need a "kingdom" (aka Lord Paramount seat) of the crownlands even if it is unclaimed, as otherwise we're going to have some real disadvantages.

If we divided the de jure territory, then three Lord Paramounts will always have negative modifiers with the Emperor that the North, Vale, Iron Islands and Dorne won't have due to desiring control of territory.

unrelated to what your talking about.
The duchy of Skaagos doesn't have an owner at the start of the scenario (is Rickard Stark, but he´s having problems to rule from a tomb ) . The thing is that Eddard gives the duchy to some northener and we have right away a Skaagos in the mainland.
So I think we should give the Duchy to one of the lords in the isles.

Why not make it a vacant duchy? That way there are no relation penalties and it's closer to canon.

I also think it may be good idea to prohibit characters from creating a duchy unless they own a county in that duchy, so the Starks or Targaryens dont create the duchy.

knuckey wrote:Why not make it a vacant duchy? That way there are no relation penalties and it's closer to canon.

I also think it may be good idea to prohibit characters from creating a duchy unless they own a county in that duchy, so the Starks or Targaryens dont create the duchy.

I don't like vacant duchies because the King will probably have a field day creating all of them and getting a huge load of prestige for his trouble. But if there was a way to prevent that from happening, it would be a good idea. Do you know if it's possible to do what you say? Is that what "location_ruler_title" does?

EDIT: After a quick test, no it isn't. How would this work?

EDIT2: I think I figured it out. We'd just need to add the following inside the duchy definition in landed_titles.txt (for example, after the colors):

Code: Select all

         allow = {
            FROM = {
               any_demesne_province = {
                  OR = {
                     province_id = [id_prov1]
                     province_id = [id_prov2]
                     province_id = [id_prov3]
                     ...
                  }
               }
            }   
         }

If we wanted the capital to be the inside the duchy instead, we'd just use capital_scope instead of any_demesne_province.

Cabeza, adding the valyrian_steel trait to Jorah Mormont, I noted he has the excomunicated trait. What are we going to do with all them?

I say either remove them, or add a trait "criminal"/"outlaw".

Not sure if Walder Frey still has it, in his case i feel its extremely unappropriated. It was supposed to represent his status as "the late Walder Frey". But since we are before the rebellion...

Cabezaestufa wrote:EDIT2: I think I figured it out. We'd just need to add the following inside the duchy definition in landed_titles.txt (for example, after the colors):

Code: Select all

         allow = {
            FROM = {
               any_demesne_province = {
                  OR = {
                     province_id = [id_prov1]
                     province_id = [id_prov2]
                     province_id = [id_prov3]
                     ...
                  }
               }
            }   
         }

If we wanted the capital to be the inside the duchy instead, we'd just use capital_scope instead of any_demesne_province.

Thats pretty much what I had in mind, Ive done a similar thing for Wales and Brittany in vanilla. I think we should implement this for all duchies.

We could take it even further and say you need the permission of your Lord Paramount to create a duchy, making it dependant on relations and other stuff. I think this would add some nice flavour.

Some issues that I noticed during multiple test games. The Rebellion usually failed because of the north.
- Ned has too many duchies, skagos should probably be owned by some skagosi house
- White harbor rebels because of culture differences. I had a whole 6K+ rebel stack with 1500 cav.
that's not only a north problem, so I propose removing the rebels completely until we come up with modified rebel events that fit westeros.
- during a test game Benjen took over the North while Ned kept the duchy of winterfell = auto rebellion win for the north only.
- Troop numbers are ~ 15K while they should be ~30K

Im sure you noticed most of those bugs Cab, but I wrote this in case you missed one.

-Rodri- wrote:Cabeza, adding the valyrian_steel trait to Jorah Mormont, I noted he has the excomunicated trait. What are we going to do with all them?

Shouldn't Jeor still be Lord of Bear Island and have the Valyrian sword since the mod takes place before Robert's Rebellion and before Mormont joined the Night's Watch?

Will only the major lords of the North (Karstark, Bolton, Manderly, Umber, Reed) be dukes? I think it would be better to limit the number of duchies held by each lord paramount and give the Duchy of Skagos, for example, to a Skagosi house (House Magnar seems as if they're the most powerful of the three).

Lol, i just tackled this Jeor/Jora problem.

It seems Jeors father lived forever... and unlike the Freys Jeor, upon inheritance decided to go to the night-watch and leave the bear island to his son Jorah.
Jorah's life in a nutshell; Born --> married a Glover who miscarried 3 times, (10y of marriage) --> A Greyjoy rebellion, Knighted --> Tourney Knight, got married to a greedy whore --> Sold some slaves --> Exiled.
Now the rebelion was in 8289.
So he is still supposed to be married to a Glover, and the unknighted ruler of the bear island... still having the sword...

I will modify the files shortly, as it seems i made a mistake, and made him an unhappily married knight... :/

Oh, okay. I always thought that Jeor gave up the lordship after the Greyjoy Rebellion and when Jorah married Lynesse Hightower but you're right.

I thought the same... if it makes you feel better

Is there a reason why i can't build a castle, city or sept in the last building slot in winterfell and in general in northern provinces? Bug? Wintermechanic?

Hey, shouldn't Moat Cailin have a bonus for defenders? After all, it is a very defensible position and it has been that way for a very long time. Seems weird for it not to grant any form of bonus to defenders.