The Citadel

Since I'm mostly done with the duchy setup in the North, here's a screenie:



It's the de jure map, but since at the moment the actual setup completely matches it I see no point in posting an additional pic. Any suggestions or corrections are welcome.

Love the de jure map. I think somebody mentioned in the thread that we might make the boundaries/territories between the barrowlands and the neck a little... cleaner? I mean, there's really nothing canon between Barrowtown and Moat Cailin, so we can kinda do what we want.

Also, I know we talked about it in the original thread, but are all of the duchies "incorporated" already, or do we still have some unclaimed duke titles?

AlecTrevelyan006 wrote:Love the de jure map. I think somebody mentioned in the thread that we might make the boundaries/territories between the barrowlands and the neck a little... cleaner? I mean, there's really nothing canon between Barrowtown and Moat Cailin, so we can kinda do what we want.

Yes, I mentioned that myself. I'll probably make Moat Cailin smaller (it was so wide to make sure invaders had to go through it, but now that we have impassable terrain that's not important anymore) and edit the Last Hearth borders to make it look better.

AlecTrevelyan006 wrote:Also, I know we talked about it in the original thread, but are all of the duchies "incorporated" already, or do we still have some unclaimed duke titles?

As of now all titles have an owner. I figure, since this is quite an stagnant world, it would have already reached a point of equilibrium where things are at its most stable (until something catastrophic happens and upsets the whole thing, of course, but in the beginning this won't have happened yet ).

Driftwood hall has 5 potential buildings in it?
Is that intentional?

It can potentially be almost as big as kings landing?

hey Cabe, I was looking through the north files and found that the entry for Willem Dustin is wrong.
It says William (must be Willam), and a inconsistency in the death bracket (it says birth).

Code: Select all

79 = {
   name="William"
   
   dynasty=79
   
   martial = 5
   diplomacy = 5
   intrigue = 3
   stewardship = 1
   learning = 5
   religion="old_gods"
   culture="northman"
   add_trait="cynical"
   add_trait="skilled_tactician"
   
   8253.1.1 = {
      birth="8253.1.1"
   }
   
   8281.1.1 = {
      add_spouse = 2068
   }
   
   8284.1.1 = {
      birth="8253.1.1"
   }
}

-Rodri- wrote:hey Cabe, I was looking through the north files and found that the entry for Willem Dustin is wrong.
It says William (must be Willam), and a inconsistency in the death bracket (it says birth).

Code: Select all

79 = {
   name="William"
   
   dynasty=79
   
   martial = 5
   diplomacy = 5
   intrigue = 3
   stewardship = 1
   learning = 5
   religion="old_gods"
   culture="northman"
   add_trait="cynical"
   add_trait="skilled_tactician"
   
   8253.1.1 = {
      birth="8253.1.1"
   }
   
   8281.1.1 = {
      add_spouse = 2068
   }
   
   8284.1.1 = {
      birth="8253.1.1"
   }
}

Oops, thanks for pointing that out!

I was playing a handsoff game today and it suddenly occured to me that White Harbor probably shouldnt have it's culture as Reachman. Whilst, granted, the Manderly's do decend from reachmen, not I expect the vast majority of the population living there are Northerners. Also, saying The Manderly's themselves are Reachmen may be a bit of a stretch. They came north over 1000 years ago when House Gardener was still the controlling dynasty is The Reach, I expect 1000 years of exile is probably enough for you to forget your roots and adopt a more local way of life .

Stiener wrote:I was playing a handsoff game today and it suddenly occured to me that White Harbor probably shouldnt have it's culture as Reachman. Whilst, granted, the Manderly's do decend from reachmen, not I expect the vast majority of the population living there are Northerners. Also, saying The Manderly's themselves are Reachmen may be a bit of a stretch. They came north over 1000 years ago when House Gardener was still the controlling dynasty is The Reach, I expect 1000 years of exile is probably enough for you to forget your roots and adopt a more local way of life .

That's a good point. I'll give you the population, but the thing is that Northern lords still seem to regard the Manderlys as southrons. Maybe we could create a "hybrid" culture just for them inside the first men group; maybe that would help with their constant rebellions.

Yeah that would probably be a good idea. Even if its "Displaced Reachmen" or something. The Manderlys may be "outsiders" but they're still North-ish now. They don't fit in with the normal Northmen but they've adapted somewhat, and they're accepted much more than if a random "southron" lord came in (see the difference between how Northmen treat Manderlys and how they treat Stannis' men).

And really, as long as we can somewhat justify it, for in game purposes less rebellions is a good idea, because White Harbor is constantly rebelling.

This reminded me how Davos was refered to as "Southerner" while in manderl's prison.
I think we should rename the "crownlander" culture group to "southerner". Crownlander sounds so... unnatural to me.

And it makes geographical sense to name them "southerner" since south-er then them there are only Dornishmen, who arent even real men!

Well, aren't the men of the Reach located more to the south? Storm's end aswell, but I am not sure wether you use a different culture for them. Grell had andal culture, mixed with some valyrian, in Dragonstone, and westerosi for the Crownlands, if I recall.

And, anyway, for northmen everyone south of the Neck is a southener, imo. (with the rare exception of the men of the Riverlands, in the period when they are actualy allied with the North maybe) So, crownlander sounds kinda weird, but southener is a bit too broad a term to be used.

Tried hart to actualy be useful and give advice for naming the Manderly culture, but to no avail. Men of the White harbor? Harbormen (even weirded than crownlanders) Or, maybe, pie eaters?

Yeah, everybody south of the neck is a southerner to the northmen. Plus, the stormlands and the reach are both south of the Crownlands! Though I'm fine with renaming if we can come up with something better.

Yes, im not saying its perfect... im saying its better then "cownlander".
The reach is its own region... or all of these cultures can be under the Southerner primary culture.

Well, on the old thread I proposed we remove crownlander as a culture (and probably even as a de jure kingdom) and split their cultures between riverlander, stormlander and possibly reachman. After all, it's a new entity made from all the different provinces Aegon took from assorted kingdoms. We could always reconsider that.

About the Manderlys, I can't think of a proper name for this hybrid culture either, but I'm sure we can come up with something.

I gave the Manderly guys "Former Southron" culture and now they are not so revolt-happy anymore. I'll probably leave it like that unless somebody comes up with a better name

Re Manderly: We're only talking about the nobles themselves here, right? White Harbor should be of Northern Culture.

Also I'm still not quite convinced that you'd even need a seperate culture for the Manderlys. There seem to be no real differences to regular Northmen except for their faith.
They are no Clansmen of course but I'd argue that they are as Northern as a Bolton for example. To not be as northern they'd have to had married Southrons and not mingled at all with their Northern subjects, equals and lords for 1000 years. And as I said, apart from their faith I just don't see it in the books.


Edit: taking the Crownlands-Stuff to the Crownlands-Thread.

I think we need a "kingdom" (aka Lord Paramount seat) of the crownlands even if it is unclaimed, as otherwise we're going to have some real disadvantages.

If we divided the de jure territory, then three Lord Paramounts will always have negative modifiers with the Emperor that the North, Vale, Iron Islands and Dorne won't have due to desiring control of territory.

unrelated to what your talking about.
The duchy of Skaagos doesn't have an owner at the start of the scenario (is Rickard Stark, but he´s having problems to rule from a tomb ) . The thing is that Eddard gives the duchy to some northener and we have right away a Skaagos in the mainland.
So I think we should give the Duchy to one of the lords in the isles.

Why not make it a vacant duchy? That way there are no relation penalties and it's closer to canon.

I also think it may be good idea to prohibit characters from creating a duchy unless they own a county in that duchy, so the Starks or Targaryens dont create the duchy.

knuckey wrote:Why not make it a vacant duchy? That way there are no relation penalties and it's closer to canon.

I also think it may be good idea to prohibit characters from creating a duchy unless they own a county in that duchy, so the Starks or Targaryens dont create the duchy.

I don't like vacant duchies because the King will probably have a field day creating all of them and getting a huge load of prestige for his trouble. But if there was a way to prevent that from happening, it would be a good idea. Do you know if it's possible to do what you say? Is that what "location_ruler_title" does?

EDIT: After a quick test, no it isn't. How would this work?

EDIT2: I think I figured it out. We'd just need to add the following inside the duchy definition in landed_titles.txt (for example, after the colors):

Code: Select all

         allow = {
            FROM = {
               any_demesne_province = {
                  OR = {
                     province_id = [id_prov1]
                     province_id = [id_prov2]
                     province_id = [id_prov3]
                     ...
                  }
               }
            }   
         }

If we wanted the capital to be the inside the duchy instead, we'd just use capital_scope instead of any_demesne_province.