The Citadel

ok any idea how we will represent it? as of now im thinking a Holy Order?

right now I have them at owning a Barony withing King's Landing and as direct vassals to the Emperor.

but how to have a maximum of 7 members? and how will they get new guys from noble families?
we'll need events for that like what grell had.

Surely should be an honorary title, imo.

If it is an honorary title you can only give it to guys in your court. Also, it would allow for some major player abuse.

Unless you want events such that when the holder of the title dies, an event chain comes up to invite the highest martial eligible person (not a ruler or an heir) in the ruler's court or his vassals' courts. And I'm not sure we can do that...

Also, we'd want to make knighthood necessary for the title. At least for this scenario.

well honorary seems a bit week. as they can't marry. members of Holy Orders can't marry either.

also they hold lands. (a barony in this case)
Same with Night's Watch. What will we do with them? !

how about this regarding Kingsguard:
they have a barony and a duchy-level title (non-claimable) they are direct vassals to the Emperor.
- we can mimic Vargarian Guard in vanilla???
- or a Holy Order?

I think Vargarian Guard would be perfect. and leave a holy order for Night's Watch.
(that way they can't attack othe members of the_seven)

now the only thing left is how we will model the fact that they gain members from nobility. anyone know how that works in vanilla with Vargarian Guard?
I can ask a paradox member (cat)

We could make 7 baronies in King's Landing and have each knight be a baron. I'm not sure if it would be possible to have an event that finds a person with the "knight/ser" trait and either gives them a bastard/divested trait or takes away any current lands.

And this is further down the line and well after we've resolved this issue but rulers who become king should be able to name a Kingsguard. That might only work with honorary titles though.

thats a bad idea and seems weird to me.

atleast one barony has to be the seat of the high septon. also you can't have 7 castles. you need atleast a city and temple. nope sorry genghis but tahts not possible
also would be weird. no way you could work out with events and nobility to gain new members.

no. not honorary titles. I was thinking more along what one guy at teh forum did. Every Emperor tier should be able to have a decision to make a Kingsguard if they are not already present.

It could be a titular county with 7 baronies.

If an honorary title, it should be a HUGE amount of prestige, so that it goes towards your dynasty score and is profitable to send an otherwise useful brother or sibling to the kingsguard.

no no reactions about Vargarian Guard-like Kingsguard?

It could theoretically be a council position (just throwing that out there). In particular, the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard would make a great councillor.

There was a Kingsguard-mechanic in Grell's mod I believe, or perhaps it was in the other AGOT-CK1 project. Anyways noble families would from time to time (very rare) get events were one of their young knights with a high martial skilled would get the oppurtunity to join the Kingsguard "Court" and the order. The family and the knight were rewarded with prestige.

I definitely think that the Kingsgaurd should be an Order with one barony (to be hable to have a court) that is a direct vassal of the Iron Throne. That way the Lord Commander could be appointed to the council by the King, or any othe rpositin, right? I also think the way to simulate recrutment can be copied from Grell's mod without too much troubble. The family whose child joins the White Cloaks gets prestige, the Throne gets skilled warriors to lead their troops in battle or to sit on the Council.

Regarding the Vargarian Guard - how do they work? o.o

I'll get down into Grell's files and see what I can find there.

EDIT: Found the event, it is basically an event that can happen for young, martial-skilled sons which are not rulers which's frequency is modified by a tons of things (much more rarely for cravens, cannot happen for hunchback, maimed etc., happens easier for brave charachters etc.)

There are actually a bunch of events like this, for the maesters, the Wall, and so on. They are all under "Sons defecting" in Grells_westeros_events.txt from Grell's mod.

Ive been thinking about this as this is what I think, similar to what ive done for the Archmaesters:

-Kingsguard could have a titular county/duchy with one barony in King's Landing
-Any member of the Kingsguard gets a special Kingsguard trait
-An event that fires every year or so for the commander of guard checking how many characters have the kingsguard trait (similar to the Archmaester one I made)
- If <7 a new unlanded character could be selected at random from westeros, with high martial high prestige characters being more likely
- This selection would be then presented to the King for approval and then a further event for the character giving them the choice (less likely to accept if an heir)
-If they agree they are moved to the Kingsguard barony and given the kingsguard trait (and hopefully some cool portrait graphics )

One problem with this is that unmarried courtiers over the age of 40 are automatically culled by the game. if we can figure out a way to give them an honorary title by event this is prevented.

Thoughts?

culled? you mean they can't be selected? well most new members of the Kingsguard ware pretty young.

otherwise you seem to have the same Idea as me. and I like the idea about the extra trait and selection. I like that alot.

one thing only. should I model the Kingsguard on the Vargarian Guard. Or just give them a titular duke title? after I have them done today we can start adding teh trait + events

But this removes agency from the King; the player won't be able to pick their Kingsguard.
Also, the Kingsguard shouldn't be some mercenary company that can be hired by the King. I'm not sure I see how Varangian Guard comparisons help.

well for one they have teh same function ingame. they guard the empreror. they have a titular title. and can be used in their council. they can't be used as mercs by anyone else.

if you just have a honorary title you dont have a commander. (or you use a honorary title for that too) and they do not own land. so they are nothing more than courtiers.

also read knuckey's post. about events the game will select someone at random. with best martial abilities and age etc. don;t know if you've tried teh new mechanic of asking courtiers to join your court. but in 95% they disagree. so raraly you would be able to get someone you wanted.

I like knuckey event based better (basod on what grell did too)

When I say cull, the game kills the courtiers of old age when they reach the age of 41 if they dont have a title, which is annoying. So if we can figure out how to give the Kingsguard/Archmaesters honorary titles by event this problem would be avoided.

If they were like the varangian guard the only difference would be extra mercenary troops available to the King, which would not be such a bad thing. you could make it a really small mercenary company, with say 7 heavy cavalry soldiers?

If you want some inspiration check out the Archmaester events I did. They're near the bottom of the Maester events in Team/knuckey.

Well, if you're the King of the Seven Kingdoms, and actually rule all those 7 kingdoms (as opposed to being embroiled in a civil war), I think you should get a pretty massive bonus to inviting people to your court, who are members of your vassals' courts. If we can put that in, surely Honorary Titles which give you the Divested trait are the best way to go?

I'm not sure it's possible to increase the likelyhood of people accepting invitations to courts as it seems hardcoded. Also the AI doesn't seem to hand out honorary titles all that often and when it does it gives them to random barons, so you could end up with some strange choices on the Kingsguard.

It would be ideal Hroppa but sadly thats not how the game works

Have we figured out if we can give out honorary titles by event? Make the honorary titles have impossible conditions so the AI can't hand them out and you only get them through the event chain?

I like the idea of a 7-heavy cavalry unit, then you could raise them and put them in an army to act as commanders but they wouldn't change the battle otherwise. Though if we make it one unit, only "one" of them would be eligible to be killed or captured in battle...