The Citadel

It was never hinted at that he was gay in the books, sure he never took a wife, but lot's of men don't take wives and they are still hetero. I've always considered Brynden a Man's man. The ultimate warrior. Married to the battlefield, woulda been a Kingsguard but loved his family too much kinda guy. I mean look at Dance of Dragons, he was still fighting! And I don't want to spoil much but after the events of the book, my guess is he's still fighting! I wouldn't assign a homosexual tag to a character in game unless it's canon. On the Hedonist Fertility Flip-side we know for a fact The Red Viper was hedon/lustful because GRRM specifically wrote it in the book. The same as Jaime and Cersei being incestuous, also written in by GRRM.

I have nothing against anyone's sexual preference, in real life or a game. But if the shoe doesn't fit, don't put it on. If there was evidence I would be the first to support the trait. Besides that nitpick thank you for an amazing CKII conversion and I am happy to join this forum!

edit: removed "seriously?" from the topic header as it may seem a little dickish even tho I didn't mean it to be, I was just astonished.

Actually, it did seem to be at least hinted at that Brynden Tully was gay. Remember that Hoster Tully called him "the black goat of the Tully herd" for not marrying a lady, implying that Brynden is different from the rest of the Tully family in some way. Homosexuality is a possible explanation for this remark, but as the all the facts on this exchange have yet to be revealed, it is just fan speculation.
What's odd about him not taking a wife, is that the Tully words are Family, Duty, Honor. Being of noble birth, it is expected of Brynden to marry, thereby making it his duty to his family to wed a woman of high birth. Refusing to even consider marriage does raise some eyebrows. Again, this is just speculation.
However, what this boils down to is that the author(s) of this mod, after presumably doing research into the world of ASOFAI, came to the conclusion that Brynden Tully was at least a little queer (as in odd), and that the homosexual trait best reflected Brynden's personality as the game and mod currently stand, at least for the time being. Hopefully this helps in some way.

P.S.
Being gay doesn't necessarily mean he is any less of the man's man that we all know him to be.

Crab Battle wrote:P.S.
Being gay doesn't necessarily mean he is any less of the man's man that we all know him to be.

Even more so in some cases:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTlFnwGB8YU

U read like a homophobes tbh,
And by this title, i would advise you to re-read the books. it seems you missed allot of things...

Too bad HBO ran out of their fish budget, an explicit sex scene like in the case of loras-renly would have be a subtle enough hint for some...

I like the theory of Blackfish as a secret Warrior's Son (in secret due to the ban). GRRM was purposefully vague about the Blackfish's love life in an interview, and this would explain it, as it could be a plot point later. Or he just doesn't care and hasn't really thought about it. With how open he has been about other gay characters, if it was something he has done several times like homosexuality then I feel like he would just say it.

Personally, I think it is a possibility but we don't really have any evidence either way. He could have just fallen for a woman (maybe Hoster's wife) who died or something.

That said, I see no problem including it in the mod, it gives some more character. It doesn't interfere with him being a strategically minded badass in the game, much like it wouldn't interefere with him being a strategically minded badass if he were gay in the books. If you really don't like it, just remove it from the history files.

"read like a homophobe" that's an interesting assumption. To make a statement like that you must of completely discounted where I said "I have absolutely nothing against anyone's sexual preference in real life or ingame". I just don't draw conclusions unless it is explicitely stated. Just because someone is the Blacksheep of a family doesn't make them a homosexual automatically. So I didn't think there was enough evidence to stamp a tag on him. I am even sad that it has to be a negative trait but that's the way Crusader Kings is designed, The survival of the dynasty above all else.

Nonetheless, maybe your right, I am sure as a developer of the mod you have scoured the novels many times, and I have only read them once, and everyone spends an extra amount of energy on the first reading just trying to keep the names straight. After watching season 1 & 2 on HBO 95% of the material was familiar. I also noticed what they changed. But I will admit there was a couple "uhh Did I miss that when I read the book?" moments.

The only reason I don't like it for the Blaskfish is because it comes with a -15% fertility hit, when we all know every percent of fertility counts in Crusader Kings. Thanks 006 I had already edited it, and gave the Blackfish lordship of Branstone. Too bad he doesn't have a Blackfish as his CoA. I needed to give the Blackfish & his new wife a boost poppin out kids so I don't end up switching over to Hoster's side of the family when he dies.

P.S. I don't know if you guys knew yet but the Game of Thrones mod is featured in Kotaku and conversely on steam itself.

I do feel that he would be better suited by the Celibate trait, as there's not really enough in the text to make the assumption. I personally believe the theory, but it's certainly not a Renly/Loras/Jon Connington sort of thing.

Interestingly, when reading the books, I never picked up on any hints that ANYONE was homosexual. Even with Loras being the Knight of Flowers and Renly's Rainbow Guard, I never made the connection they were gay with each other. I'm totally cool with it, mind you, I just thought they really, really liked each other, haha.

Brynden's another one. Never made that connection, either.

Foxd1e wrote:It was never hinted at that he was gay in the books, sure he never took a wife, but lot's of men don't take wives and they are still hetero.

You don't need sniggers behind someone's back to place a theme in the subtext.

I've always considered Brynden a Man's man. The ultimate warrior. Married to the battlefield, woulda been a Kingsguard but loved his family too much kinda guy. I mean look at Dance of Dragons, he was still fighting!

A manly man badass warrior knight-commando can still be gay. Shit, all of this also applies to Loras and we know that guy's a homosexual. Same with Jon C.

Schneider21 wrote:Interestingly, when reading the books, I never picked up on any hints that ANYONE was homosexual. Even with Loras being the Knight of Flowers and Renly's Rainbow Guard, I never made the connection they were gay with each other. I'm totally cool with it, mind you, I just thought they really, really liked each other, haha.

Brynden's another one. Never made that connection, either.

Well books were always a form of media very depentand to personal expirience and using a healthy dose of your imagination to supplement the lack of visual stimulation a flashy hbo show might have,

And lets face it if you wish to gloss over something you'll do it wether its ignoring a passage in a book or removing the ''offending'' trait from sead character(s).

recluser wrote:Well books were always a form of media very depentand to personal expirience and using a healthy dose of your imagination to supplement the lack of visual stimulation a flashy hbo show might have,

And lets face it if you wish to gloss over something you'll do it wether its ignoring a passage in a book or removing the ''offending'' trait from sead character(s).

It's nowhere near that simple or objective.

Just curious if anyone can actually give me examples of the blackfish being hinted at being gay, also i dont recall anything about jon c either. I picked up on the loras/renly thing pretty early and am amazed i missed something about the blackfish, he is one of my fav characters. I have no problem with it in the game, though i was surprised to see it as a trait. As far as Jon C, i haven't really enjoyed the last two books as much as the first 3 so having read them only once compared to the 3-4 times on the others i may have missed a subtle hint or two.

Yeah Jon C basically loved Rhaegar from a distance just like The Hound loved Sansa. I don't think it was mutual, unless someone has a good theory of Rhaegar experimenting in his Emo teen years

g.r.r.m. has personaly stated that jon connington is gay, no mention of the blackfish however by official ressources but his actions make it very plausible that he is gay.

*serious DwD spoilers*









Jon Connington spent his entire career trying to do nothing but impress Rhaegar, was incredibly jealous of how close Arthur Dayne was with him, almost singlehandedly lost the War of the Usurper because he wanted to impress Rhaegar by slaying Robert in personal combat, and spent the remainder of his life raising his child. Sounds like he was in love to me.







*okay, you're clear*

You left out the whole "silver prince" thing, too.

Wolfgang Pauli wrote:*serious DwD spoilers*









Jon Connington spent his entire career trying to do nothing but impress Rhaegar, was incredibly jealous of how close Arthur Dayne was with him, almost singlehandedly lost the War of the Usurper because he wanted to impress Rhaegar by slaying Robert in personal combat, and spent the remainder of his life raising his child. Sounds like he was in love to me.







*okay, you're clear*

Yep the good ol' Battle of the Bells. Jon C. still has nightmares of those ringing bells. Just think though, on the flip-side, he could of single-handedly won the War of the Usurper if he met and defeated Robert. Although I personally doubt he could of taken Robert one-on-one.

He almost got himself killed fighting Robert on the steps of Stoney Sept.

And yet, currently the Lord of Acorn Hall doesn't have the homosexual trait. His desire to grab young men's penises is the reason Pyp is at The Wall (at least according to the TV show, don't recall if they went that route in the books or not).

That had happened only in the TV series.